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1:41

guys, let's pick up with parts two

1:43

then. So Jordan, thank you for joining me and

1:45

for bringing the dogs along as well. They are

1:47

literally so well behaved. Second walk of the day

1:50

for them. Well, I mean, they have a

1:52

big walk in the morning normally. What

1:54

why, um, it's on the dog dog's point is probably

1:56

the title as well the book. Why?

22:00

Yeah, I would try. I try. I

22:02

try, you know, like a laptop. There is a

22:04

movement towards that though. People are starting. There are

22:07

people, I've seen a few people like, ironically, online

22:09

saying that they like, other than absolute necessity of

22:11

like, even as the coach, like bricks. Yeah, I

22:13

do think online, like, you know, I know people

22:15

who just have a YouTube. That's right. But

22:18

you know, but I also do consume a lot. I don't know. But

22:22

yeah, no, just to your point. Yeah. Game

22:26

changer. There was somebody incredibly close to

22:28

me actually, who was really

22:30

low a few years ago, like really

22:32

low. And you

22:35

know, me and Jay were just like, have

22:37

the dogs. Two months, we just gave

22:40

them the dogs. And when

22:42

I tell you that when this person came back,

22:46

they were completely different. The whole energy, the

22:48

way they held themselves, they had been walking

22:50

for hours. I literally believe

22:52

it. And these dogs have just got them out.

22:54

They've healed this person. It's like you said, it's

22:56

love. It's like most of people struggle. This is

22:58

an absence of love, either to oneself or

23:01

being surrounded by that. But I think there

23:03

is something unconditional about dogs. Like pretty much

23:05

unconditional. But when you treat them kindly, they

23:07

love. Yeah, with respect to

23:10

respect you back, man. It's like we're no

23:12

better than dogs, mate. We're not like, you

23:14

know, I've been using example of dogs to

23:16

this when I've been engaging in like, kind

23:19

of gender discussion sometimes because I get asked

23:21

a lot about men generally. And

23:23

I wonder, you know, if we

23:26

do sometimes lean into the negatives of men

23:28

a little bit too often,

23:30

because like when I was training

23:32

Mimi, you know, the

23:34

golden rule of dog training is you reward

23:36

good behaviour. You don't punish bad behaviour. Because what

23:39

happens when you punish bad behaviour is they

23:42

are aware of the repercussions.

23:44

So they accept them if they feel

23:46

like what they want is more important.

23:49

So it's like, if they know they're going

23:51

to get hit, I think I could eat

23:53

a slice of pizza and get hit. I'll

23:55

take it. But if

23:57

you if you go to the dog, oh my God, you didn't eat.

24:00

the pizza that's incredible here's a tree are

24:02

they gonna eat the pizza no you know

24:04

and I wonder if we're like we've

24:07

over complicated that basic understanding of

24:10

how people work. Do you think

24:12

men are more lost it says?

24:14

Yeah yeah I

24:16

mean I would I would

24:19

firstly I think people are more lost you

24:21

know like it's again we are we're living

24:23

in a hyper individualistic society we've totally lost

24:26

touch of community I think community is we

24:29

are in desperate need of it

24:32

there's constant division sown on on

24:35

quite reductive concepts I

24:37

think gender in some cases being one

24:39

of them you know but

24:44

I think men I think men can do

24:46

with with building up a better relationship with

24:48

themselves and understand that they can love themselves

24:50

if they'd be you know and not

24:52

be a kind of ashamed of that.

24:54

I think sometimes there's

24:56

like shame now around people being

24:59

a man can sometimes feel shameful in itself. Yeah

25:01

I think yeah look I

25:03

think life life is tough for many

25:05

people and there are many circumstances that

25:07

can that can I can

25:11

push someone into a space of desperation and that

25:13

I'm not even sure if man and woman is

25:15

the best way to even look

25:17

at that investigate that might be like you

25:20

know we live in a world that crushes a

25:22

person who doesn't have enough money to

25:24

get themselves out we live in a world

25:26

where we charge people for having no money

25:28

in the bank do you know how insane

25:30

that is it just fundamentally doesn't make sense

25:32

you are stepped on under in this in

25:34

the capitalist system if you aren't fortunate enough

25:37

to get yourself just above water you know

25:39

I mean so yeah I think in those

25:41

environments there'll be all types of factors that

25:43

contribute to people acting up and

25:47

yeah look I really hope about this stuff all the time because I'm

25:49

interested you know one

25:53

example of how love could be an

25:55

antidote and of course I say this I put

25:57

this on my tiktok actually but I say this

25:59

with a caveat that it will seem ridiculous in

26:01

the context of modern society. But yes, there are

26:03

some, I guess, more

26:08

communities that have held traditions

26:10

for a long time. That,

26:13

for example, if someone, if

26:15

a man in the village steals something, he's

26:18

not punished for stealing, he's taken into the middle

26:20

of the village, surrounded by

26:22

the other members of the community, and

26:24

they tell him what they love about

26:27

him until he cries, until

26:29

he's brought back in the line, because they

26:31

believe that that person is just out of

26:33

alignment. They weren't born to damage their community.

26:36

They had just been brought out of alignment,

26:38

and they're brought back in emotionally. Now, obviously,

26:40

it seems extreme, but like I'm saying, we

26:42

live in a punishment-based society. How's that working

26:44

for us? Yeah, well, that's- Josh and then

26:46

it asks people, how is that working? Yeah,

26:49

that's the point, isn't it? Does it work

26:51

well? And I genuinely hear people's answer to

26:53

our punishment-based society is to make the punishment

26:55

worse. That's the answer is, yes,

26:57

you know, people behave more if you just gave them

27:00

more of a bad punishment. Like, come on, man. It's

27:02

in the fabric of our, we've

27:05

fucked with the fabric of humanity. So

27:08

we've come to the end of part two. I guess, a

27:10

question I have just from, you know, from the perspective of

27:12

you now, all the kind of work you've done, therapy,

27:15

but also experiences and stuff as well, what

27:17

would you say to someone that is perhaps

27:19

amongst chaos, or perhaps even amongst darkness, who

27:21

is running that kind of wheel of just

27:23

trying to exist, but deeply is going through

27:25

a lot? What would you

27:27

give us, like, a message of hope, but also perhaps how

27:30

to approach that now? Where

27:32

to start? I honestly think if

27:34

people are going through chaos, you just gotta walk every day. You

27:37

gotta get outside and walk. Go outside. Try

27:40

and drink lots of water. There's six tent

27:43

poles, I'll talk about these until the day

27:45

I die. I

27:47

learned about these on a thing called the bridge, a

27:50

course called the bridge run by Donal Lancaster. And

27:53

the six tent poles are solitude

27:56

and community in equal

27:58

measure, creativity. nature,

28:00

sleep, nutrition and

28:03

exercise. Exercise. They're pretty

28:06

solid. And genuinely, if you're

28:09

feeling out of sorts, have a look

28:11

at those six tempos and ask yourself

28:14

genuine, like realistically. There's the first solitude

28:16

and community in equal measures are really

28:18

powerful. Yeah. A lot of

28:20

people can't be alone. But

28:22

equally some people, I'd say

28:24

particularly, I think kind of may

28:26

struggle to make sure that you

28:29

are actually seeking community. Yeah. My

28:31

move is towards solitude. I'm

28:34

probably on my own too much. Yeah. To

28:36

be honest. And then to the point where then

28:38

you're going and being with other people and new

28:40

people feels scary. Scary. Yeah.

28:43

Totally. It's a problem for me, but I'm

28:45

working on it. I'm working on it. But we'll come down to part

28:47

two there. We will come back to the photo I mentioned at the

28:49

end of part one and part three. So guys, we'll see you all

28:52

very soon. Thank you. To

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