0:00

There are some well-known vegans now in the longevity space,

0:02

and they admit they take over 100 pills a day.

0:05

Yeah, that's not a life. And those are just the nutrients that

0:07

we know about. There's a database, and if you look in that

0:09

database and you put in red meat, you put in a steak,

0:11

42,000 components in it. But

0:14

vitamins and minerals on a steak package, maybe eight, 12,

0:16

15 things, but there's 42,000

0:18

unique components in a steak. The complexity of our

0:21

food is much more than we've been led to

0:23

believe. And I think the idea that we can

0:25

just distill that into a multivitamin or distill that

0:27

into a powder, that's wildly

0:30

wrong. I'm just playing, I don't fight,

0:32

I do the praying. I only go the way, I must

0:34

stay out of the way. There's not often I sit down

0:36

with somebody and they say something that makes me think. Bro,

0:38

this was great. I love you back. I love you back.

0:41

You're gonna give me something to think about. I'm on my own damn

0:44

way. I had a lot of fun on this interview. We're

0:47

gonna sit here today and talk about all

0:49

the things that I was very, very curious

0:51

about when it comes to men's testosterone, when

0:53

it comes to fat loss, when it comes

0:55

to all these things that are leading us

0:57

to diabetes and really putting us on a

0:59

path for a good, healthy diet and really

1:02

educating us. Because I feel like our generation

1:04

is lacking the true wisdom when it comes

1:06

to what we're putting into our body. And

1:08

I can't wait for this episode. Let's do

1:10

it. What's up guys? Welcome back

1:12

to the George Jankos show. This is our

1:14

first guest in our new house. Welcome Paul,

1:16

how are you? I'm good brother. Thanks for having me guys.

1:19

You came all the way from Costa Rica. Costa Rica. How

1:21

do you like it out there? I love it in Costa

1:23

Rica, man. I'm just a jungle guy at heart. Where

1:26

were you born? I was born in California,

1:28

Santa Barbara. Oh wow, Santa Barbara

1:30

is so beautiful. But that's a massive difference. I

1:32

know, but I didn't grow up there. I grew up on

1:34

the East coast, basically suburbia. Today,

1:36

you were working out outside and I have to start

1:38

out the podcast. So let's go. This is so funny.

1:40

He goes, oh yeah, I just made a really bad

1:43

mistake. And I was like, what happened? He goes, I

1:45

was just doing this thing and I thought it was

1:47

good in my head at the moment. And I was

1:49

like, what happened? He goes, I was recording kids coming

1:51

out of school. And I was like, Paul, what in

1:53

your right mind did you think that was a good

1:55

idea? He goes, well, they

1:58

just look so excited leaving for recess. that

2:00

they were in cages and I was so frustrated why

2:02

did we leave them in cages? And

2:04

I was making like an Instagram story and

2:07

I was editorializing as I was filming. So

2:09

I was over at like Cashman Park and

2:11

I was doing sprints outside. Okay. And you

2:13

know, I'm standing under this tree between sprints

2:15

and I see these kids just come

2:17

out of the school and there's like

2:19

a fence, like a bar fence between us.

2:21

Don't tell me you were shirtless. I wore

2:24

shirtless, of course it's Phoenix. Oh my God.

2:29

Oh, Paul gets arrested on the way here. I

2:31

can't, I can't do the interview. What happened? I

2:34

was shirtless recording kids. I don't know why I thought that was

2:36

a good idea, but what he told me that I was like,

2:38

Oh, this is going to be a great interview. I'm going to

2:40

tag you in the story. I'm going to put that story on.

2:42

What's the name of the tag you George? Did

2:44

a police officer see you? Like how did this? No,

2:46

there were no police actually on the scene. Okay.

2:50

Yeah. It was just somebody from the school that kind

2:52

of like walked over with a walkie talkie and was

2:54

like, you can't film the kids. And

2:56

I was like, Oh, sorry. I mean, I was just

2:59

like trying to make an interesting statement about how we,

3:01

how we school kids and how they're indoors all the

3:03

time. And it's just so, so joyful seeing them like

3:05

just run out of the school. They're

3:07

like, I mean, it's over a hundred degrees, you know,

3:09

outside. I mean, just bolt out of that school. They

3:11

want the sunlight. They just want to be outside. They

3:14

want to play. They want to throw things. Your brain

3:16

is always actively looking for like teachable moments. Does

3:18

that, does that ever get like a, would

3:21

get you in trouble like today? Does that get this? Yeah. Yeah.

3:25

Today was, I was an anomaly. It doesn't usually get me

3:27

in trouble like that. But when you're at a grocery store,

3:29

do your friends get annoyed of you and they're picking out

3:31

something from like the grocery? Oh yeah. All

3:33

the time. They're like, don't eat that. That has like, oh yeah. I'm

3:35

not, I don't proselytize. I let my friends do what they want to

3:37

do, but we did get kicked out. We've only gotten kicked out of

3:39

a few places. We, whole foods will not

3:41

let us film anymore. So if any of like the managers at

3:43

whole foods, he has, they'll kick us out immediately. Sprout

3:46

is now letting us film, but we got kicked out of all

3:48

the recently the manager didn't like us in there. We got kicked

3:50

out and had to come. You

3:52

were talking pretty highly about sprouts,

3:55

right? Oh, I talk, I talk mostly we're

3:57

doing positive stuff now in grocery stores, grocery.

4:00

because you won't be able to get your groceries. Yeah, yeah, I

4:02

mean we did a lot of negative stuff in the past and

4:04

that's probably why we got a bad rap and they kicked us

4:06

out a lot. But I think that's a good thing too to

4:08

take the positive approach. That way when somebody goes into a store,

4:11

they go, okay, let me grab all the positive things. Yeah, they

4:13

know what to buy. I think that's interesting. And

4:15

I mean, we were talking about this before the podcast, but grocery

4:18

stores, I mean, this is cliche to say, but that's

4:20

just where we hunt and gather today, right? So how

4:22

does someone navigate that? I think the choices

4:24

that we make, first of all, if

4:26

someone is in a grocery store, you're doing good. Because

4:29

if you are selecting your food in a grocery store, props

4:32

to you, step one, you're doing the right thing, as opposed

4:34

to going to fast

4:36

food, right? That's harder or

4:38

near impossible. Restaurant, somewhere in the middle, but like

4:40

restaurant, fast food, much harder to make good choices.

4:42

But if you're in a grocery store, you're

4:45

doing good. But then once you're in a grocery store, what

4:47

do you buy? Because I think you could shop in a

4:49

grocery store and make decisions that are getting

4:51

in the way of your health or continuing

4:54

to sort of perpetuate illnesses or issues that

4:56

you might have. How did you get into

4:58

this mind? Was this when you

5:00

were younger and you were like, oh, I really like

5:02

fitness and health? Or was it kind of like I

5:04

was put in a situation where I

5:07

want to make sure I'm healthier? I think

5:09

it was the latter. I

5:11

think like many things, it came out of

5:13

just a pursuit for myself. So I had

5:15

eczema growing up and asthma. I had eczema

5:18

as like itchy red bumps on my wrists

5:20

and my hands. Do you know what caused

5:22

it? Well, we'll get to it, right? Food

5:24

caused it, clearly, for me. And did the

5:26

doctors know that? So now

5:28

I'm starting to find your passion, kind of like Barbara.

5:30

You went and you knocked on the doors. They didn't

5:32

give you the answers that you were looking for. And

5:34

you went straight to the roots. And you figured out.

5:37

And what was your first like aha moment? I

5:41

think it was probably sometime around medical

5:43

school. So I

5:46

was a physician assistant in cardiology before I went

5:48

to medical school. So I worked in cardiology as

5:50

a PA. PA is kind of like between a

5:53

doctor and a nurse. My dad

5:55

is a doctor. He worked a lot. I

5:57

saw him over work and basically. never balance

5:59

life and work. And so I thought maybe

6:02

a PA would be a good in-between. So

6:04

first I went to PA school, I worked in, as in

6:06

cardiology, and I thought, I don't have enough autonomy here. And

6:09

even in cardiology, working as a PA, I could

6:11

see that we weren't doing the patients, we

6:14

weren't doing for the patients as much as I wanted

6:16

to do for them. Like we would give them medications

6:18

and I sort of learned what medications to give, but

6:20

I was always curious, like what's causing heart attacks? What's

6:22

causing atherosclerosis, this process of plaque in the heart, what's

6:24

causing high blood pressure? You wanted to make a difference.

6:26

You weren't there for the paycheck. I wanted to know

6:29

what caused it. I think that like, I just,

6:32

I'm fascinated by what makes it work, you

6:34

know? Like I just wanted to understand the

6:36

human body. What a fascinating, elegant machine. Like

6:38

what is causing it? And I could

6:40

see there was a thread and I thought it was food for a lot

6:42

of my life. And so I went back

6:44

to medical school and it was in medical school. I started

6:46

thinking about that really for myself, but I guess even before

6:48

medical school, I could tell that food made a

6:50

difference for me because I mean, I had

6:52

a time when I was a raw vegan man. Like

6:55

when I was, probably when I was a

6:57

PA, I was a raw vegan. Let's talk about

6:59

that. Cause my friend, I got on a vegan

7:01

diet for a little bit, but I hopped off

7:03

of it cause I felt like it was fake

7:05

energy. Like it wasn't like, and I also was

7:07

worried about my hair. I felt like my hair

7:09

was thinning a little bit. So I want to

7:11

get, I want to get your ideas of this

7:13

because she doesn't eat meat at all. She has

7:15

fish. Is that a

7:17

healthy alternative lifestyle for like

7:21

a woman or a man to be just no meat?

7:23

No meat. So I

7:25

have concerns about that. So vegan diets, really

7:28

good idea, really good intention, really

7:31

bad execution. So there just are

7:33

unique nutrients found in animal foods,

7:35

whether that's fish or chicken or

7:37

beef or pork or lamb or

7:39

elk that you hunted. There are-

7:42

Wait, pork? Pork, pork has unique nutrients. I thought pork was

7:44

like, ha-damn, no. Well, it's some

7:46

religions, right? No, no, I'm not, but there,

7:49

so if you follow down with a religion

7:51

is because of health issues, the same as

7:53

some Christians don't deal with it as well

7:55

because they don't have any sweat glands when

7:57

they're bottom feeders. So like they hold like

7:59

bacteria. and they don't like, they're not clean

8:01

animals. So that's why they stay away from them.

8:03

Pork has unique parasites. So with pork, you have

8:06

to cook it really well. Pork has like tapeworms

8:08

and stuff that you can get in pork. Pork

8:10

can be good if it's raised properly. It's kind

8:13

of like, no matter what animal you're gonna eat,

8:15

you want to make sure that animal is raised

8:17

in the way that it should be raised. What

8:19

is beneficial and healthy about eating pork? Pork

8:22

has unique, pork has bioavailable

8:24

protein, it has thymine, it

8:26

has biotin, it has

8:28

riboflavin, some riboflavin. So for somebody

8:30

who didn't go to law school, or like law

8:32

school, or doctor school. What does

8:34

that do for you? Pork has vitamins and minerals. Just

8:37

like all meat of animals has vitamins and minerals, and

8:39

a lot of these vitamins and minerals don't occur in

8:41

plant foods or occur only in small amounts in

8:44

plant foods. So the idea is like, as a

8:46

human, so homo sapiens, homo sapiens

8:48

sapiens, right? We really cannot get all

8:50

of the nutrients that we need to

8:52

live as humans and thrive and procreate

8:55

and be fertile and live our best lives,

8:57

think clearly, sleep, recover from simply plants. I

9:00

mean, this has been known for a long

9:02

time. Even the staunchest

9:04

vegan will tell you they're okay taking a

9:06

B12 supplement because that nutrient occurs only in

9:08

animal foods. But the list of

9:10

nutrients that occur only in animal foods or

9:13

almost exclusively entirely in animal foods goes way

9:15

beyond B12. There's other nutrients

9:17

like creatine, it's just an energy

9:19

substrate for the brain and the

9:22

muscles recovery, carnitine, carnosine, those are

9:24

antioxidants, taurine, which is an amino

9:26

acid that we talked about earlier,

9:28

taurine has been associated with longevity

9:31

across species, occurs only in animal

9:33

foods. Do you ever, okay,

9:35

do you support when they use powder

9:37

substance of it? Like for example, people

9:40

who take creatine scoops, would

9:42

you rather them eat it or take the scoops?

9:44

Always better to get it in food, but I

9:46

think for some things it's okay to do the

9:48

supplement as long as the supplement is good quality

9:50

and you know the supplement. But here's

9:52

the other piece is like, there are some

9:54

well-known vegans now in the longevity space and

9:56

they admit they take like over

9:59

a hundred pills a day. or 63 supplements. And

10:03

those are just the nutrients that we know about. One of

10:05

the coolest parts is all the stuff that we don't know

10:07

about in a whole food that can

10:09

act like, we're just at, we really, it's like the

10:11

tip of the iceberg. We don't know everything about nutrition.

10:14

There's a database out of

10:16

Canada. It's called foodb.ca, I think. And if you look

10:18

in that database and you put in like red meat,

10:20

you put in like a steak, 42,000 components

10:23

in it. But

10:26

vitamins and minerals on a steak package, maybe

10:29

eight, 12, 15 things, but

10:32

there's 42,000 unique components in a steak. So

10:34

the complexity of our food is much

10:37

more than we've been led to believe.

10:39

And I think the idea that we

10:41

can just distill that into a multivitamin

10:43

or distill that into a powder is

10:45

that's wildly wrong. 100%, and

10:47

it's always better to just get the natural

10:49

source because you're getting it from the fresh,

10:52

where it's meant coming from. Bioavailable and

10:54

bioidentical in that situation. Now, again, I

10:56

think there's a time and a place

10:58

for supplementation. I take creatine powder

11:01

myself. You don't blow or get fat from it? No, I don't

11:03

have a problem with it. Why?

11:05

How come some people do and some people don't? It's just like a body

11:07

thing? I've not heard. People are bloating

11:10

from creatine. I bloat so hard. From creatine. Yeah.

11:12

I wonder if it's a gut issue for you. I

11:14

have gut issues. That could be a problem. I don't have

11:16

any problems with creatine. How old are you? I'm 47. See,

11:19

this is what I was talking about. I

11:22

should have started it that way because some people are, what does

11:24

he know, bro? And then they hear your age, they're like, all

11:26

right, I'll loosen. Bro,

11:28

I just hit 30 and I look like

11:30

what your age should look like and you

11:32

look like what I should look like. Don't

11:34

lie to me. Don't lie to me.

11:36

I'm trying to get my way out. That's why you're here. I'm

11:39

trying to learn. After this, we're gonna sit down. I'm

11:41

gonna go on a diet and I'm literally gonna take

11:43

a picture of myself and I'm trying to clear myself

11:45

out. I'm trying to get on a

11:48

very disciplined, healthy journey.

11:50

I gotta cut the sugars out and the

11:52

fast food joints out. Yeah, let's talk about

11:54

it. Why do you eat

11:56

so much fast food? Okay,

11:59

so this is my problem. I studied this. This is my because

12:01

I was doing really well and then I fell off again I

12:04

get like in my head about my weight and

12:06

then I'm a dedicated and then I'll celebrate cuz

12:08

like life Something good happens and then

12:10

when I get hooked on it again, it's just like I

12:13

can't get off It's like crack a little addictive.

12:15

Of course it is and also I travel a lot

12:17

So it's really really hard if I'm getting off the

12:19

plane at like 11 o'clock at night I can't go

12:22

somewhere to go get healthy food and I'm in a

12:24

hotel room. So I can't cook I don't cook she

12:26

cooks she cooks amazingly And that's why I feel guilty

12:28

looking this way because she's an amazing chef and I

12:31

should be like lean like you but I

12:33

don't so Convenience

12:36

is a killer for us as humans. I traveled

12:38

here from Costa Rica I was in the airports

12:40

and again, I was trying to think of teachable

12:43

moments. I'm walking through the airport I think it

12:45

was the airport in Houston that I was in

12:48

before I flew to Phoenix and I was

12:50

looking around at the food and I'm thinking there's not a

12:52

lot of good food in this airport It's really hard to

12:54

find food. There were a few things I actually there was

12:56

a place where you could get a burger and they actually

12:58

served grass-fed meat which was remarkable to me But a lot

13:01

of places in the airports are gonna cook with cooking

13:03

oils that I'm not a fan of seed oils We can talk about

13:05

that a lot of places the restaurants are not in the business of

13:07

giving you health food They're giving you food that's tasty And

13:10

so a lot of the food has multiple ingredients and then

13:12

if you look at the packaged food the packaged food is

13:14

not Super healthy for you either. So if

13:17

as humans we rely on convenience to be healthy

13:19

We're gonna fail every time like so it's just

13:22

it's I think that it comes from a place

13:24

of like what? does it mean to you like

13:26

why do you want to be healthy and then

13:28

you have to really make these Behavioral changes and

13:31

that's not super exciting or sexy to

13:33

talk about but if somebody doesn't have the impetus if

13:35

you don't have like the desire To be healthy and

13:37

you don't understand that this is behaviors number one Like

13:40

how do you prepare for your trip? Is it just you

13:42

have to get up 30 minutes earlier? So you throw some

13:44

the simplest thing ground beef in the pan and put

13:46

it in a glass container and take it on a flight

13:49

Or yeah, but you're eating cold meat. That's fine. No, no,

13:51

that's weird I know it's totally fine. We were here I

13:54

see this talking about bro. I can't go from

13:56

a delicious hot meal. That's not good for me

13:58

and then for me to understood

20:00

that the keto is the best

20:02

thing for everyone with cancer. I don't think the idea

20:05

that carbohydrates cause cancer is fully fleshed

20:07

out in the medical literature and the word carb

20:09

or carbohydrate is something that's very confusing too, right?

20:11

Because there's a lot of nuance there like what's

20:13

a carb, what's a carbohydrate? But for

20:15

me I did a year and

20:17

a half just meet, eczema goes away, but

20:19

you asked about the beginning and the end. The

20:22

reason I stopped is because toward the end I

20:24

really noticed I was starting to have muscle

20:26

cramping, my sleep was getting worse, I was checking

20:28

my hormones, my testosterone started to go down,

20:31

and my thyroid wasn't as optimal as it

20:33

should be. So you could see all these

20:35

indicators of kind of long-term quote

20:37

starvation state physiology in a human. You can

20:40

live like this. Historically, evolutionarily, we probably went

20:42

through periods where we didn't have access to

20:44

fruit or tubers. Your body can switch back

20:46

and forth. It has this alternative fuel pathway,

20:49

but I don't think it's the ideal pathway

20:51

for humans. And what we clearly see is

20:53

in both men and women,

20:55

fertility, sex hormones, which are really

20:58

like indicators of abundance, these are

21:00

switched on when you have adequate

21:02

calories and adequate carbohydrates. So

21:04

most of us want that. Did you slowly

21:07

reintroduce like fruits and vegetables when you were

21:09

towards the end of it? Fruit. Yeah, not

21:11

vegetables. Not, okay. No, I still don't really

21:13

eat vegetables. Really? Yeah. I did read on

21:15

how you feel about plants and something that

21:18

like I had learned a lot. Do you

21:20

know who Dr. Gundry is? Yeah. Okay, so

21:22

and talk about lectins and their defense mechanism.

21:24

So is that their main reason why you

21:26

stay away from a lot of vegetables? Because

21:29

lectins? There's a lot of defense chemicals even

21:31

beyond lectins. So lectins are probably an issue

21:33

for me with some foods. Lectins are carbohydrate-binding

21:35

proteins that are present in

21:38

all foods, but some plant foods might trigger

21:40

immunologic reactions in some people. So the overarching

21:42

idea here, which is really fascinating to me,

21:44

Western medicine doesn't really get this yet, is

21:47

that not all foods, even foods that we

21:49

might consider healthy or unprocessed, work for everyone's

21:51

immune system. Yeah. So this is fascinating because

21:53

I have autoimmune tendencies. I get eczema, I

21:56

get asthma. These are part of this atopic

21:59

condition in from

32:01

gluten, from bread, that's autoimmune, man. What does that

32:03

mean? It means your immune system is reacting against

32:06

your own body because your immune system is getting

32:08

triggered in your gut by some kind of food

32:10

you're eating that your body doesn't like. So is

32:12

that from the bread or just other things? Probably

32:15

from the bread and other things. Like sourdough doesn't

32:17

really affect me that much. Sourdough has less gluten

32:19

but not zero. Yeah. So

32:22

it's a gluten intolerance that I have. It sounds

32:24

like that clinically to me. How do I find

32:26

out, how does a guy that's watching you speak

32:28

right now? Because dude, when you're speaking, you speak

32:30

with such confidence

32:34

because you know the breakdowns to everything. How does

32:36

a man like myself go into the realm of

32:41

studying what my body's good with and not

32:43

good with? Even the lectins you guys were

32:45

talking about? Lectins, yeah. Only

32:48

thing about lectin that I thought I was gonna

32:50

elect Trump for president. I didn't think anything else

32:52

about lectin. I think that this is

32:54

where we get back to the idea of an elimination diet.

32:57

And I'll frame it like this and then we'll get

32:59

back to your second question. If

33:02

you're thriving, don't change anything. Just keep thriving, right?

33:04

If you're thriving, you don't need to change what

33:06

you're eating. What if they're eating fast food? If

33:08

you're thriving eating fast food, man, I mean, I'm

33:10

pretty sure you're not gonna be thriving forever but

33:12

like who am I to tell you to stop,

33:14

right? But if you're not thriving, then

33:17

there's your motivation. There's step one, there's your sort

33:19

of spark. And if you're not thriving, then

33:21

make intentional changes with your diet and stick to

33:23

it for three to four weeks. And that's not

33:25

gonna be easy but it's gonna be so valuable.

33:27

It's the single most valuable thing you can do

33:29

for your health long-term. You can go

33:31

and see a doctor, they'll give you a prescription

33:34

but you won't learn what's causing your issues, whether

33:36

they're gut issues or depression and anxiety or sleep

33:38

issues or infertility or low libido or skin rashes,

33:40

whatever you've got. Like you're not gonna learn what's

33:43

causing that if you just take a medicine to

33:45

mask it. So do the experiment for yourself. You

33:47

have full agency and sovereignty to go to the

33:49

grocery store and select different foods. And so which

33:52

foods do I eat? I think

33:54

that the simplest sort of baseline

33:56

diet for people is an animal-based diet. That's just

33:58

what I've called it. And it's like. things

40:00

back and figure out what's causing it. Is

40:02

there anything that I could take to just

40:04

do a gut cleansing? You may not need

40:06

to do it. Your gut is always recycling

40:08

kind of on its own. Really? Right. Yeah.

40:10

You're, you're, you're microbiome in your gut, which

40:12

is trillions of bacteria, right? 10 to the

40:14

15 bacteria. A lot of people

40:17

believe that there are more bacteria

40:20

cells in your, like your gut microbiome, and there are cells

40:22

in your body. So you may be at least

40:24

an order of magnitude more not-self than you

40:26

are self. So that, that's very malleable.

40:29

What you eat changes that completely. So if

40:31

you stop eating a ton of junk food

40:33

or you stop eating certain foods, your gut

40:35

microbiome is going to shift on its own.

40:37

You may not need a gut cleanse. Go

40:39

simple in the beginning. What about fasting? How

40:41

do you feel about fasting? I'm not a

40:43

huge fan, especially for women. So fasting is

40:45

again, right back to that, like starvation. Now,

40:48

if you're trying to understand what's triggering your

40:50

gut, there are utilities to fasting because it's

40:52

simple. You're eating zero, right?

40:54

And so you give your gut kind of a

40:56

rest, but if you go too long, you are

40:59

really just elevating those stress hormones. You have to

41:01

eat. Same thing that keto's doing. You have to

41:03

eat at some point and you're not going to

41:05

solve it with fasting. I really do not believe

41:07

that there is solid evidence in the medical literature

41:09

to say that fasting is magical or uniquely

41:12

curative. The idea that you are not putting anything

41:14

in your gut can be helpful because you're sort

41:16

of giving your gut a rest. Now, what are

41:18

the studies that are talking about how like, if

41:20

you, God forbid, have cancer

41:23

or any type of immune system that's

41:25

like battling in your body, that if

41:27

you fast, like even your, your,

41:29

your cells or whatever it's been eaten, it'll

41:31

go after the dead ones first. This is,

41:33

this is the concept of autophagy kind of

41:35

that you're talking about this like, I have

41:37

no idea. So I'm just coming at you

41:39

as an average individual that's heard the gossip

41:41

of others and like try to like, you

41:43

know, I'm not going to sit here and

41:45

act like I know anything. I don't, I

41:48

don't know. This is why. Yeah. He's talking

41:50

about that. When you're, instead of

41:52

your cells feeding on like, you know, the food that

41:54

you're giving in, it's growing the cancer bigger and bigger.

41:56

It's starting to feed on what you already have inside.

41:58

And so it's eliminating. what's already

42:00

kind of been built. I

42:03

don't think there's really any good evidence regarding fasting

42:05

and cancer at this point. Okay, can

42:07

I ask you something? Do you think a lot of

42:09

us are getting misinformation online from people that are dressed

42:11

as doctors? Of course, but people

42:13

accuse me of that too. Really? Yeah,

42:15

of course, yeah, yeah. So it's just like perspective, it's

42:17

kind of like when people read the Bible, some people

42:19

take it a certain way and some people take it

42:21

a different way. Does that

42:23

ever get annoying? And also like, how do

42:26

you know which is fully correct and what

42:28

is not? Is it just up for examination?

42:31

Like you have to test it? This guy wants

42:33

more meat. He's like sneaks into the body. Tommy

42:35

is obsessed with him because he just like is

42:37

after the meat. I love you. He smells like

42:39

the walking meat stick. I

42:42

made friends with your dog first. So this

42:44

is, I really understand this and I

42:46

understand people's plight because it's confusing, right? You

42:49

would think like, what I think people

42:51

should do is use their intuition. And

42:53

this was in your podcast with Barbara O'Neill.

42:55

Be your own doctor, right? Don't

42:59

take anyone's advice at

43:01

face value. Just interpret it, take

43:04

it in, think

43:06

about what it means to you, see how it

43:08

feels intuitively, experiment, and then see how you feel

43:10

honestly in your body. That's ultimately what you're looking

43:12

for because there are lots of

43:14

very well-intentioned, intelligent vegans who are telling you

43:16

that meat is bad. And I'm sitting here as

43:18

a well-intentioned human telling you that meat is

43:20

incredibly nutritious for humans and uniquely valuable. So

43:22

how is someone supposed to parse that out? They're

43:24

not probably gonna read all the literature and

43:26

all the meta-analysis. Yeah, because Barbara doesn't agree with

43:29

that. I know, I heard on the podcast.

43:31

I think you guys should fight and see

43:33

who survives. That would be such an interesting podcast

43:35

to have the two of you speaking on

43:37

your different, you know. Was there

43:39

anything you took away from that podcast that you enjoyed?

43:42

I appreciated a lot of that podcast. I love that

43:44

she said, if you eat meat, you're organic meat. She

43:46

seemed very open-minded to it. She didn't seem completely close

43:48

to it. And

43:50

I thought, I really like that she is trying to

43:53

understand the root cause of an illness. And I think

43:55

that there's a lot of value in human experience. And

43:57

this is another thing that Western medicine doesn't

43:59

really. appreciate. I mean like there

44:02

are so many people like I said who have

44:04

done an animal-based diet, basically meat and fruit or

44:06

just meat, and their auto immune conditions get better.

44:08

And to be fair there are people who do

44:11

vegan diets and see their autoimmune conditions get better.

44:13

So what's going on there? That's very valuable. You

44:15

know I would my perspective would be if you

44:17

do a vegan diet and your conditions get better

44:19

it was probably the processed food, potentially

44:22

the processed food, and I worry about long-term

44:24

nutritional deficiencies. But again if people

44:26

are thriving on vegan diets, more power to them,

44:28

I just worry about their long-term nutritional status because

44:30

I've seen it time and time and time again

44:32

when people eliminate all meat and all animal foods.

44:34

And I want to get to fish because we

44:36

got to talk about this the potential issues with

44:38

fish for you. But yeah I loved how open-minded

44:40

she was and how how she was actually trying

44:42

to get to the root cause. And that

44:45

that's what it's about. We're all just

44:47

trying to understand these things. And I

44:49

love that hopefully these conversations give people

44:51

hope because so many people

44:53

are suffering. And I don't

44:55

say that lightly. So many people have issues

44:57

either they can't conceive or they have eczema

45:00

or gut issues like you or sleep disturbance

45:02

or depression. And like we said at

45:04

the beginning of the podcast, you go to

45:06

a doctor and they say here's a medication. Even

45:08

the most intelligent well-intentioned doctors often don't have much

45:10

more to offer than that. So how cool is

45:12

it that people like me or Barbara get to

45:14

give people more tools when they're really

45:17

ready for it? I just want there to be more

45:19

options for people so that when they're ready they can

45:21

say okay maybe I'll try what she's saying, maybe I'll

45:23

try what he's doing. Because I want people to understand

45:26

there's no, you're never

45:28

really beaten you know. That the human body is incredible and

45:30

I totally agree with her that the human

45:33

body wants to be healthy if we

45:35

just remove the impediments toward that health.

45:37

That's a very naturopathic perspective not an

45:39

allopathic perspective. So what I did medical

45:41

school in, I have an MD, is

45:44

allopathic medicine. But I really believe that

45:46

naturopathic medicine has the right perspective which

45:49

is remove the impediment and the body

45:51

will heal. I love that

45:53

you're doing what you set your heart out to do

45:55

when you started to do the whole medical

45:57

field. Yeah. How does it, how do you?

45:59

Like, what would you say to a gentleman

46:02

that's going to school for like to be

46:04

a doctor or a nurse and they're just

46:06

teaching them to write a prescription? Like I

46:09

know that I've talked to some doctors that

46:11

I could tell they're just dark inside because

46:13

they know what they're doing. They know that

46:15

they're not helping fully. Like how

46:18

does, how does that make you feel? And like, well,

46:20

what would you give that man any advice? Man,

46:22

I read the other day that there's like a million physicians

46:25

in the United States. I didn't know there were that many

46:27

doctors, a million doctors. I guess it makes sense. You know,

46:29

a doctor can only see 10, 10, 15 people

46:31

a day. But

46:34

I get so excited when I meet somebody

46:36

in medical school because I think,

46:38

okay, that's the future. You know,

46:41

I've often thought it would be really fun to

46:43

go teach at a medical school or go to

46:45

medical schools and do debates with the faculty, respectful

46:47

debates. Because I think that if we can

46:49

educate physicians, then everything will

46:51

change. It's kind of like, do

46:53

you do bottom up or do you do top

46:55

down? Like, is the government going to change

46:57

things? I don't think the government, I mean, we can talk about what

46:59

I would do at a governmental level. I don't think it's ever going

47:02

to come from the bottom. Social media is

47:04

kind of a double edged sword. It gets used

47:06

a lot from people kind of negatively and, and

47:08

it gets used to spread information that may

47:10

or may not be false, may true or false. And

47:13

people say a lot of negative things on social media,

47:15

but the amazing thing of social media is just that

47:17

it, it allows for free exchange of

47:19

information and people can find information whereas they couldn't

47:21

in the past. And so when I meet people

47:23

in medical school, I think, okay, you're the future.

47:25

I hope that you will just take this in

47:28

because you kind of have to do the, do

47:31

the, do the dance, you know, get through

47:33

medical school, give them the right answers that

47:35

they want on the test. And then if

47:37

you just think outside the box, if doctors,

47:39

nurses, PAs, just think what is causing this

47:41

condition I'm treating, we will

47:44

be so much better off as, as Americans, as,

47:46

as humans in the future. And I think

47:48

it's starting, people are starting to kind of question

47:51

the mainstream narrative and that's a big deal. And

47:54

thank God for that because it's in so many cases,

47:56

you know, like I was fortunate

47:58

enough to grow up with a mother who, you know, she. was got

48:00

very passionate about this and went dive deep into

48:02

learning how we can heal ourselves naturally. I think

48:04

God has given us everything we need to

48:07

heal ourselves. But it's like when I

48:09

sit in a doctor's office and I'm like, yeah,

48:11

this is going on with me. And like, they

48:13

don't touch you. They don't check anything out. They're

48:15

just asking a few questions and they go, okay,

48:17

maybe just take some of this. Or they're just,

48:19

or no answers. So many times I leave, I

48:21

have no answers. And I just think that it's

48:23

so sad that so many people who aren't, are

48:26

not available to this information, they go into the doctors

48:28

and then they go home and

48:31

they're just blinded. They don't know. They don't know this is

48:33

even a possibility. A lot of people have never even heard

48:35

that almonds could be causing them to have gas or bloating.

48:38

Like that's a crazy statement. And again, I think almonds

48:40

are much better than processed food. And some people can

48:42

eat almonds just fine, but you know,

48:44

whether it's spinach could be an issue

48:47

for some people because it has oxalates. This is

48:49

another one of these problematic compounds in food. Oxalates

48:52

are a component of the main kidney stone that

48:54

we get as humans, calcium oxalate kidney stones. So

48:56

I think some people get joint pain or other

48:58

issues in their body from high oxalate foods. You

49:01

have lectins, you oxalates, you have digestive enzyme inhibitors.

49:03

These are all the defense chemicals that occur in

49:05

those kinds of vegetable foods. Can we talk about

49:07

fish for a second? Please. So the

49:09

thing I worry about when people are pescatarian, if

49:11

they just get their protein from fish, me.

49:15

Is are the heavy metals. And Barbara talked about

49:17

this, the heavy metals, because they're accumulating in the

49:19

fish. And so I think that it's

49:22

awesome that you're getting animal protein from the fish

49:24

and just make sure you check your heavy metals,

49:27

especially when you guys want to have kids, because

49:29

that's important. Because I think that heavy metals

49:31

are something that not everyone thinks about. There's

49:34

heavy metals in a lot of foods we

49:36

eat. Nothing has zero heavy metals, but fish

49:39

tend to bioaccumulate heavy metals. Even the bigger

49:41

the fish, the more problematic it is. But

49:43

even wild salmon has

49:45

pretty significant levels of

49:48

mercury, cadmium, the shellfish.

49:50

Is that a wild cod? Even wild

49:53

cod. Yeah, I always make sure

49:55

I never, ever, ever, ever eat farm-raised

49:57

fish. Talk to me about that. Why do you guys

49:59

show up? So why are you guys so concerned about

50:01

where the fish is coming from? So

50:04

the fish that is farm raised, 99.9%

50:07

of farm raised fish is raised in tanks. They're

50:10

fed fish food, which is basically

50:13

the equivalent of junk food for fish. They're not

50:15

eating what fish are supposed to eat, plankton or

50:17

smaller fish, et cetera. So they're

50:19

eating fish food, which is junk. And we

50:21

know that farm raised fish has very high

50:24

levels of contaminants, whether it's heavy metals or

50:26

PCBs, polychlorinated biphenyl compounds,

50:29

problematic things in farm raised fish. Actually

50:31

just did a piece of content on this

50:33

that a lot of people appreciated. You know

50:35

that if you go to a grocery store,

50:37

Atlantic salmon is never wild. There's

50:40

no such thing as wild Atlantic salmon.

50:42

It's only Pacific or Alaskan salmon. So

50:44

if you see Atlantic salmon, it's

50:46

always farm raised. Always. What if

50:48

it's, do they ever say it's

50:50

something and it's not? It's misleading.

50:53

They won't say wild Atlantic, but they'll say

50:55

like, Atlantic salmon and you don't know that

50:57

it doesn't say farm raised necessarily. You have

50:59

to read the back. And if

51:01

you read the back of Atlantic salmon, you'll see

51:03

they always put coloring in it because farm raised

51:05

fish is white. The salmon is white. It's not

51:07

pink because there's no, none of these carotenoids from

51:10

the things they're supposed to be eating in the

51:12

ocean. So you know what tilapia looks like at

51:14

the grocery store. It's white. That's

51:16

what Atlantic salmon would look like if it's

51:18

farm raised, if they didn't give it a

51:20

coloring agent, which is just an illustration of the

51:22

fact that like what you eat, what

51:25

that food is eating matters. And so the quality

51:27

of the food and the health promoting

51:30

qualities of the food depend on how healthy that is.

51:32

So that's crazy. Like the fish is literally a different

51:34

color. Do they let them know that they colored it?

51:36

It says it on the label. It says it have

51:38

to. Coloring added, coloring

51:40

added. So that's a big thing with Atlantic

51:42

salmon, but even wild, Alaskan salmon

51:44

pretty significant amounts of heavy metals. I mean, I've

51:47

worked with a lot of people who

51:49

want to do the right thing. You hear fish is healthy, right?

51:52

And red meat gets a bad rap. We can talk about why that

51:54

is and why I don't think it's something to be feared. But

51:57

red meat gets a bad rap. So you should eat chicken or fish instead, right?

52:00

Again, not the full narrative, but people end up eating

52:02

salmon three times a week. You check their heavy metals

52:04

and you can just check blood levels of

52:07

lead, mercury, cadmium, and arsenic. You

52:09

can go to your doctor. Not a fancy test, just a blood test.

52:11

And they're pretty high. What does that do for you? So

52:15

heavy metals are pro-oxidant. They cause

52:17

stress. It's like this is where

52:19

you get the idea of rust,

52:21

right? So oxidation is essentially, it's

52:24

rusting within your body. Your body is

52:26

this delicate balance between the movement of

52:28

electrons, between molecules in your body. And

52:32

oxidative compounds are kind

52:34

of like they're stealing electrons.

52:37

They're causing damage to proteins,

52:39

to cellular components. They cause this rust in

52:41

your body at a high level. So

52:44

it's just causing more stress on your body

52:46

to have pro-oxidants. You know, like lead poisoning

52:48

in kids, you've heard of this. They test

52:50

kids for lead because it can cause developmental

52:52

abnormalities. Kids don't end up learning as

52:54

easily. They have growth delays

52:57

or learning delays from heavy metals. Mercury

53:00

is associated with all sorts of issues

53:02

in humans, potentially hormone disruption, bone cancers.

53:05

There's also, there's a, you know, Alice in

53:07

Wonderland. The Mad Hatter

53:09

is an illustration of mercury poisoning. It's

53:11

actually a known diagnosis in medicine called

53:13

Hatterism because the hat makers used to

53:15

soak some part of the hat in

53:18

mercury and they would absorb it through

53:20

their skin. No way. The

53:22

hatter in Alice in Wonderland has mercury

53:24

poisoning. Wow, that's so interesting.

53:26

I've known people who have gotten mercury

53:28

toxicity just from eating sushi four

53:31

to five times a week. Like sushi is the best

53:33

thing ever, right? So they just want to go eat sushi all the

53:35

time and then you check they have like mercury toxicity. So

53:38

how often would you say should I eat

53:40

fish and like which out of all the

53:42

fish and seafood would be the cleanest to

53:44

have? So it's again, it's like the

53:46

smaller the fish, the better. But

53:49

I would want to make sure you get enough

53:52

protein and I would, hopefully you could get animal

53:54

protein. So I think, I think ideally you would

53:56

get animal protein every day, but I wouldn't eat

53:58

fish more than once or twice a week

54:00

and I would just I would always check the metal levels

54:03

in your body again even with the blood test to start

54:05

there are different ways to check the metals. Do you find

54:07

that the NAD supplement helps

54:09

get rid of these heavy metals?

54:11

It might. Most of what

54:13

you use to get rid of heavy metals is a

54:16

molecule called glutathione and you can

54:18

supplement with glutathione but your body has the ability

54:20

to get rid of these things. You asked about

54:22

a gut cleanse. Sometimes people think about liver cleanses.

54:24

Your gut is always changing. Your gut is always

54:26

trying to repair itself. Your liver is always trying

54:29

to repair and regenerate itself. NAD

54:31

may help. That's not completely the same as

54:33

glutathione. Some people take glutathione. That can help

54:36

with heavy metal excretion. Your body's always getting

54:38

rid of heavy metals but it's kind of

54:40

like you're putting water in the bathtub

54:42

and you're draining water out of the bathtub at the

54:44

same time. There could be a constant level of heavy

54:47

metals in your body if it's coming in and going

54:49

out. If you can decrease the

54:51

heavy metals coming in your body will eventually

54:53

get rid of them. Some people need to

54:55

get rid of them more quickly. I think

54:57

that that's the delicate balance is getting enough

54:59

protein that's high quality but what's

55:01

the sourcing on it? Let's

55:04

just mention this. Back

55:06

to the seeds. The legumes

55:08

are maybe a better source of protein

55:11

for people that don't eat meat. Again,

55:13

they're not as bio available as animal

55:15

protein. What is the legumes? Beans. But

55:17

the problem again

55:20

with these is they do accumulate the metals too.

55:22

The seeds accumulate metals also.

55:24

I'm guessing metal is like something

55:26

that you're trying to avoid altogether.

55:28

Heavy metals because of their oxidative

55:30

and their stress. Does

55:32

it make you fatigued? It could. I

55:35

want to tap into cheese because a lot of

55:37

people are scared of cheese. I know you want

55:39

to jump into the red meat. No, no we

55:41

talk about everyone. But why is it that when

55:43

people are on keto they have high fats and

55:46

cheese and meat and they lose weight

55:48

like crazy and their fatigues and their

55:51

brain fog is gone but then some other people will

55:53

be like no no no that's like increasing

55:56

your cancer. It's getting you fat. It's

55:58

gonna make you fatigued. Choose

56:00

two different complete ideas of right, but it's

56:02

the same product. What's the cheese that you

56:05

have me eat? Oh, I'm

56:07

a very big fan of goat and sheep

56:09

cheese So I love men chego and then

56:11

I get sheep in all sorts of forms.

56:13

Yeah. Yeah, so compare that to American cheese

56:17

You know that American cheese actually cannot be

56:19

called cheese It has to be a cheese

56:21

product because there's some I think it's

56:23

an FDA regulation. It has to be six It's like

56:25

it doesn't even meet the requirement. It's only 60% cheese

56:29

Like American cheese is not real cheese Yeah,

56:32

it's like one molecule away from being plastic. Well, I

56:34

don't know about that So

56:39

if you actually look at American cheese under a microscope

56:41

you can see the microplastics It's crazy You can see

56:44

these little fibers of plastic have you ever looked at

56:46

something under a microscope or do you just leave it

56:48

to? The other people I don't have a microscope anymore.

56:50

I did when I was a kid, but I haven't

56:52

looked at myself But cheese I

56:54

think is super healthy for humans I mean if

56:56

you look at the studies in humans dairy

56:59

fat is consistently Associated with

57:01

like really positive outcomes and there are

57:03

unique fats that occur in dairy. These

57:05

are called odd chain fatty acids Most

57:08

of the fats that we encounter are even chains

57:10

This has to do with the number of carbons

57:12

in the fatty acid chain But the

57:14

odd chain fatty acids essentially occur uniquely

57:16

in dairy and the amount of odd

57:18

chain fatty acids in your body Consistently

57:20

associates with better outcomes whether it's longevity

57:23

or better like overall health in life

57:25

So dairy fat looks to be very

57:27

very healthy in studies. That's pretty darn

57:29

clear And why do people say it's

57:31

not because it raises your cholesterol

57:33

sometimes. Let's talk about that We're jumping into

57:35

red meat now. They always say that with

57:37

that as well Yeah, because some of the

57:39

fats in in red meat specifically

57:42

palmitic acid, which is a 16 carbon

57:44

saturated fat does raise LDL

57:47

cholesterol, but this is something we have to

57:49

unpack whether that's problematic or not before we

57:52

unpack that why is high cholesterol Bad

57:55

so I don't believe that high cholesterol is

57:58

always bad you're

58:00

just going against my mother. Oh yeah, yeah. Now

58:02

we're just getting, we're going full like. Now you

58:04

need to leave. Okay, so talk to me about

58:06

that. What is their fear

58:08

with high cholesterol and then what is your opposite

58:11

opinion of it? Yeah, I'll try and do this

58:13

as simply as possible. It gets

58:15

a little technical, so just pause me if I get

58:17

off too much. Gotcha. So historically

58:19

in medical school we're taught

58:22

high cholesterol heart disease and

58:24

I think that the easiest

58:26

comparison is we know that eggs have a

58:28

lot of cholesterol and what's

58:31

inside your arteries looks just like eggs, therefore

58:33

eggs cause heart disease. A lot of people

58:35

stop eating as much eggs because of that.

58:37

Yeah, but what we know is that it's

58:40

not really that simple, right? It's much more

58:42

complicated than that. That's what they go off of

58:44

though? I think this is just the high level of like what,

58:46

this is the market taught in medical school, but I think this is

58:48

how most humans think about this. They look at fat and

58:51

they see pictures of the inside of arteries and

58:53

they make the fat in the artery wall, which

58:55

is called an atherosclerotic plaque. They make it yellow

58:57

and they make it look like scrambled eggs and

58:59

they're like, oh scrambled eggs have cholesterol, therefore eggs

59:01

cause heart disease and fats are bad for me

59:03

and I shouldn't do that. But

59:06

it's much more complicated than this.

59:08

So there's different lipoproteins in your

59:11

body. So lipoproteins are things like

59:13

LDL or HDL. Those are

59:15

the two main ones, but there's other types

59:17

of lipoproteins. Lipoproteins are essentially buses. Think

59:20

of your body as a really complex

59:22

network of streets and there are different buses

59:24

that move around the streets, the streets being

59:26

veins and arteries. And they have a central

59:29

hub, which is probably your liver, a bus

59:31

station, and your body at a

59:33

high, high simple level, your body sends buses

59:35

out from the liver. These are the LDL

59:37

particles. They're bad cholesterol and these go to

59:39

your body and they deliver nutrients. And then

59:42

sometimes buses come back to the liver and

59:44

bring things back to the liver. That's like

59:46

HDL at a very simple level. It's a

59:48

little more complex than that. Sometimes passengers get

59:50

off one bus and transfer buses, but there's

59:53

bad cholesterol and there's good cholesterol in like

59:55

the most simplest version of this, but

59:57

it's much more complicated than that. And we know that. So,

1:00:01

call LDL cholesterol bad is

1:00:03

a massive oversimplification. You can't live

1:00:05

without LDL cholesterol. There

1:00:07

are genetic congenital conditions.

1:00:11

One of them is called Smith-Lemley-Oppet syndrome,

1:00:13

where people don't make cholesterol, which

1:00:15

is a steroid molecule that actually

1:00:18

goes into the LDL particle. And

1:00:20

these kids have birth defects, they

1:00:23

have learning delays, they die very young,

1:00:25

they get sick a lot. We know

1:00:27

that if you don't have LDL particles

1:00:29

that are full of enough cholesterol, you

1:00:31

don't function well as a human. Cholesterol

1:00:34

itself is the building block of all of

1:00:36

your sex hormones and other hormones which regulate

1:00:39

things like salt and electrolyte balance in your

1:00:41

body. So you can't make testosterone without cholesterol,

1:00:43

you can't make estrogen, progesterone, any of these

1:00:45

things. So LDL

1:00:47

cholesterol gets a bad rap at

1:00:50

a simple level because in individuals who

1:00:52

have heart disease, we often

1:00:54

see higher levels of LDL cholesterol, but

1:00:56

not in everyone. And if you really

1:00:59

look at the studies carefully, it's pretty

1:01:01

clear that not everyone

1:01:03

who has a heart attack has

1:01:05

high cholesterol, but there are studies

1:01:07

that can show associations between higher

1:01:10

levels of LDL cholesterol and increased

1:01:13

rates of heart disease. And

1:01:15

I think that what we're

1:01:17

looking at here from my perspective is an

1:01:19

association rather than a causal connection. Does that

1:01:21

make sense? Because I think

1:01:24

that to suggest that a particle that

1:01:26

you cannot live without is actually damaging

1:01:28

your body and is the beginning part

1:01:30

of a plaque, the more LDL

1:01:32

cholesterol, the more plaque. This association

1:01:34

I think is more complex than we're being led to believe.

1:01:37

I think that LDL cholesterol, bad cholesterol, is

1:01:39

involved in the plaque formation in your body

1:01:43

but doesn't start the process. So

1:01:45

then we have to go back to the root cause and

1:01:47

what starts the process. But if

1:01:49

you listen to many well-intentioned, super smart

1:01:51

doctors in the mainstream, they will tell

1:01:53

you LDL cholesterol is causal. And I

1:01:55

disagree with this. I think the evidence

1:01:58

is pretty clear that it's not. causing

1:02:00

because when I hear the word

1:02:03

cause, I think it, you know,

1:02:05

what causes a fire, a spark, right? It

1:02:07

has to actually initiate the process on its

1:02:09

own. And LDL cholesterol doesn't

1:02:11

seem to do that in humans. It's

1:02:14

associated with higher rates of

1:02:17

atherosclerosis in some

1:02:19

studies. But if you look at humans, and

1:02:21

there have not been a ton of studies like this, but the studies

1:02:23

have been done, if you look

1:02:25

at humans who are insulin sensitive, that

1:02:27

is metabolically healthy, that is not diabetic,

1:02:30

not on the continuum of diabetes, the

1:02:33

association between LDL cholesterol and heart disease looks

1:02:35

very different. And often there is a very,

1:02:38

very small association or no association anymore at

1:02:40

all. So it's very confusing, right? And I

1:02:42

think what we're confused by in Western medicine

1:02:44

is that most of

1:02:47

our population is unhealthy.

1:02:49

And so, yes, LDL cholesterol

1:02:51

is probably involved in the formation of a

1:02:53

plaque. If everyone is unhealthy, it can look

1:02:56

like LDL is causing that. But I don't

1:02:58

believe it's the original cause. Did I lose

1:03:00

you there? No, if anything, I

1:03:02

want to know, is it kind of like if

1:03:05

we're using the bus analogy analogy, if we're using

1:03:07

the bus analogy, it's like every time they get

1:03:09

to the car accident and they're they're trying to

1:03:11

break down what happened, they assume because the wheels

1:03:13

are attached to the bus. They're like, oh, it's

1:03:16

the tires. It's always the tires. But you're saying,

1:03:18

no, there's so much more going on here that

1:03:20

just because it shows up in the studies of

1:03:22

a heart attack and of all these things, they're

1:03:24

trying to make it seem like it's the spark

1:03:26

when it's not just because the firemen show up

1:03:29

to a fire doesn't mean they cause the fire.

1:03:31

Right. LDL is going to be at

1:03:33

the sign of the crime, the scene of

1:03:35

the crime. LDL is going to be in the plaque, but doesn't

1:03:37

mean it caused the plaque. Right. The firemen show

1:03:39

up for the fire. This is the

1:03:41

other way I think about it, like wood and

1:03:43

fire. So you need LDL

1:03:46

cholesterol to make a plaque, this

1:03:48

atheromatous plaque, the atherosclerosis. You need

1:03:50

LDL cholesterol for that. You

1:03:53

need wood to have a fire

1:03:55

in the traditional sense if you have a

1:03:58

campfire, but wood doesn't cause the fire. on

1:04:00

its own and LDL cholesterol has

1:04:02

a lot of valuable roles in the human

1:04:04

body. There are a

1:04:06

lot of studies in elderly populations

1:04:08

showing that more LDL cholesterol is

1:04:10

consistently associated with better longevity and

1:04:13

freedom from infectious disease. LDL

1:04:15

cholesterol participates in the immune

1:04:17

response against illness. LDL

1:04:20

cholesterol interrupts quorum sensing which is

1:04:22

the communication between bacteria and viruses.

1:04:25

So LDL and HDL have a role

1:04:27

in the immune system. We're never told

1:04:29

that. We're just told LDL cholesterol is bad.

1:04:32

That's crazy. LDL is an immune particle. It's

1:04:34

valuable. It helps us fight infections in the

1:04:36

human body. There were lots of, I don't

1:04:38

know how much we can say without getting

1:04:40

censored, but there were lots of hypotheses about

1:04:44

this even during the recent pandemic

1:04:46

about LDL cholesterol and levels

1:04:48

of LDL cholesterol and potentially helping

1:04:50

with viral infections. So wood

1:04:53

has value. You use wood to build a

1:04:55

house, right? If you

1:04:57

have sparks, having

1:04:59

more wood around could be a problem, but

1:05:01

the wood doesn't cause the fire. It's the sparks

1:05:04

that cause the fire. In the

1:05:06

analogy I'm trying to draw here, what are

1:05:08

the sparks? That's the original cause of atherosclerosis.

1:05:11

So what are the sparks? We can talk about it. I think there's

1:05:13

a lot of good evidence. The spark is insulin

1:05:15

resistance, also known as metabolic dysfunction,

1:05:17

prediabetes. That's about to

1:05:20

say, and then that can lead into Alzheimer's. Oh,

1:05:22

that can definitely lead into Alzheimer's. That, I think,

1:05:24

problems insulin resistance, aka metabolic

1:05:27

dysfunction, is at the root

1:05:29

of so much of what we suffer

1:05:31

from as humans. That's a big thing I

1:05:33

want to dive into. So before we dive

1:05:35

into that, do you think, and this is

1:05:37

just a conspiracy, some thought, do

1:05:39

you think a lot of the medical fields

1:05:42

purposely mislead you to treat you later? No,

1:05:45

I don't. I don't actually. I think

1:05:47

that pharmaceutical companies have

1:05:49

an imperative to their board

1:05:51

to make money, and I

1:05:54

don't think all pharmaceutical companies

1:05:56

are always super well-intentioned,

1:05:58

but I don't think they're all completely I mean,

1:06:00

there's a lot of good things that come out

1:06:02

of pharmaceutical companies also. I think

1:06:04

that in general, the medical system

1:06:06

is trying to do good. I just think that you

1:06:09

have a system that's kind of self-sustaining, right?

1:06:11

The pharmaceutical companies pay for 75% plus of

1:06:15

medical studies. Medical students are

1:06:17

taught medical studies. We're only basically

1:06:19

taught about drugs. Yeah, but now

1:06:21

we gotta go down to Jordan Peterson who owns

1:06:23

the people that teaches them. Right, right. So

1:06:26

it kind of, there is a rabbit hole I would love

1:06:28

to kind of dive into, I don't want

1:06:30

to because I don't want to get killed. But

1:06:32

okay, so I want to take

1:06:35

another step back when we were talking about the red meat

1:06:37

and how you said that it helps women and men with

1:06:39

like testosterone and- Oh yeah. What is

1:06:41

it that women have a- PCOS? PCOS,

1:06:44

but what do they, they have, like

1:06:46

we have testosterone, they have- Oh estrogen?

1:06:49

Oh estrogen. Yeah, sorry. So

1:06:51

that being said, I noticed that when

1:06:54

I was growing up, they were like, steroids is not

1:06:56

good for you. Don't take steroids. And

1:06:59

now I'm getting into this

1:07:01

generation where men are like, no, no, no,

1:07:03

dude, I go once a week, I get

1:07:05

this. And mind you, if you were naturally

1:07:08

not building testosterone and your doctor and you

1:07:10

have talked about it, I think that's an

1:07:12

okay approach. But from my perspective, I'm watching

1:07:14

these men get shredded, look good, take the

1:07:17

easy way out and not really take the,

1:07:19

you know, the proper steps to get there. And

1:07:21

when they have to get off, because they can't

1:07:24

be on it too long, they crash harder and

1:07:26

then they get really insecure. You know, when you

1:07:28

said that, it's kind of hard going from getting

1:07:31

a shredded body and then chubby again and then people

1:07:33

are like, what's going on here? And then it pushes

1:07:35

you to go back to do those more drugs. What

1:07:38

is it to do? Sorry, what could we do

1:07:40

for these young gentlemen from the age of 25

1:07:42

to 35, when

1:07:44

their body's naturally slowing down? Because

1:07:47

I think we're living in a generation that we're eating a lot

1:07:49

more fast food, we're eating a lot more processed food, what

1:07:51

could they do to help their testosterone grow

1:07:54

naturally without sticking a needle inside of them?

1:07:56

Right, right, so let me tell you this.

1:07:58

So I don't take TRT. T. Liar.

1:08:02

You're lying. You don't look like that naturally,

1:08:04

buddy. No, I show my labs all the

1:08:06

time on my podcast. Like, really? You're

1:08:09

completely natural. Yeah. I'm

1:08:12

completely natural. Like I've shown my blood work probably

1:08:14

six times in my podcast. Yeah.

1:08:17

I've never, I've never done TRT. And again, I'm

1:08:19

47 years old. If

1:08:21

somebody's 47 and they want to do TRT, that's the decision with

1:08:23

your doctor. But I know lots of people who are my age

1:08:25

or older. My testosterone is between eight

1:08:27

and 900 total. Like the

1:08:29

idea that what's the regular and what's the, what

1:08:31

it's not looking good. And how does a man

1:08:34

test this type of stuff? Just a blood test.

1:08:36

Yeah. It's a morning blood test.

1:08:38

It's a generally a fasted blood test, but it doesn't

1:08:40

have to be. It's usually before 8 a.m. In the

1:08:42

morning testosterone has a circadian rhythm. So it's highest in

1:08:44

the morning and then it drips the top drop. The

1:08:46

circadian rhythm. Does that have to do with the moon

1:08:49

and how you sleep? It just has to do with

1:08:51

a day night cycle. Yeah. So

1:08:53

that actually affects your testosterone. Absolutely.

1:08:55

I'm fatigued. My gut

1:08:57

is like beat up and I'm always on the

1:08:59

move and I'm eating terribly. That does affect my

1:09:02

testosterone. And

1:09:05

not sleeping affects your testosterone because you get signals

1:09:07

from your brain. The pituitary glands send signals to

1:09:09

your testicles to make testosterone. This

1:09:11

is FSH, this is FSH

1:09:13

and LH, right? So these

1:09:15

two hormones, follicle-stimulating hormone and

1:09:17

luteinizing hormone. If you really want to understand

1:09:20

what's going on with testosterone, you have to

1:09:22

check the brain signal and the testicle signal.

1:09:24

I got to ask a question. It might

1:09:26

be personal. Are

1:09:29

signs of that like you're just not getting it up?

1:09:31

It can be. Because what happens if you're

1:09:33

getting it up just like

1:09:36

a teenager, but could you still have testosterone

1:09:38

issues? Yes, you still could have testosterone issues.

1:09:40

Really? Yeah. So

1:09:42

you have no problem getting it up and you could have testosterone issues.

1:09:45

Yeah. And that might manifest

1:09:47

as low libido or trouble gaining

1:09:49

muscle or trouble with mood. Yeah.

1:09:52

But generally when people have declining testosterone, they

1:09:54

will notice lower libido or some

1:09:57

erectile dysfunction at some level, but not necessarily.

1:10:00

I just wanted to know about that. Yeah, so but yeah,

1:10:02

it's interesting because I just

1:10:04

want to note that like your

1:10:06

testosterone doesn't necessarily decline when

1:10:08

you're over 25 or over 35 or even over 45 as a man if

1:10:12

you're careful about the way you live your

1:10:14

life. So that the pillars of testosterone are

1:10:16

good sleep, like really solid sleep.

1:10:18

You have to sleep well to have testosterone. I

1:10:21

think you have to avoid all of the

1:10:23

endocrine disruptors in our world. And then I think

1:10:25

you have to give your body the nutrients it

1:10:27

needs and give it a signal of abundance.

1:10:29

So when I was keto, when I was carnivore, my testosterone

1:10:31

was probably went from 800 to around 500. And

1:10:35

is 500 good? 500 is

1:10:37

still within the reference range, but it declined. I mean,

1:10:39

my testosterone declined pretty significantly. And what do you think

1:10:41

was the lead cause of that? I think when you

1:10:43

don't give your body carbohydrates, and again, not all carbohydrates

1:10:46

are great for humans, carbohydrates are a

1:10:48

signal of abundance for us as humans.

1:10:50

You think about this evolutionarily or historically,

1:10:52

right? In the

1:10:54

past, if we are in tribes, when you have fruit,

1:10:56

fruit is in season, when you have honey and these

1:10:58

kind of things, you think this is

1:11:01

calories, this is a signal of abundance for humans, and

1:11:03

this is our time to breathe, this is our time

1:11:05

to be fertile. When we don't

1:11:07

have those things, it's probably winter or we're

1:11:09

starving or we're not in a place of

1:11:11

abundance. So we need enough calories, and we

1:11:13

need to have carbohydrates. I mean, if you

1:11:16

don't have carbohydrates, testosterone generally declines. So-

1:11:19

Aside from fruit and honey, what are some

1:11:21

other good carbohydrates to eat? Okay,

1:11:24

great question. So fruit and honey are my main

1:11:26

carbohydrates. I also do squash, which is a fruit.

1:11:28

That's just what works for me on

1:11:30

this animal-based diet template. But milk has carbohydrates.

1:11:32

I think sweet potatoes are kind of in

1:11:35

the middle. They're probably the most tolerated

1:11:38

carbohydrate outside of fruit and honey for

1:11:41

people. So tubers can work, although white

1:11:43

potatoes are a nightshade. So some people

1:11:45

have immune reactions to white potatoes, but

1:11:48

if you can do white potatoes, that's great. I

1:11:50

think that if you go from there, that's where

1:11:52

I would pause. Before you start eating grains for

1:11:54

carbohydrates, understand how that affects you as a human.

1:11:57

Some people can eat oatmeal and not have issues. We talked

1:11:59

about the wheat. and the gluten and stuff, but I think

1:12:01

that not doing grain-based carbohydrates

1:12:03

is better. So tubers, fruit, honey,

1:12:05

those would be the main things.

1:12:07

But also remember, like I said,

1:12:09

that squash is a fruit. So

1:12:12

how do you feel about rice? So

1:12:14

rice is a grain and of the

1:12:17

grains, rice is probably the most well tolerated.

1:12:19

You have to be careful. White rice versus

1:12:21

brown rice. They say that brown rice is

1:12:23

better, but she's telling me that white rice

1:12:25

is better. Brown rice has a lot of

1:12:27

heavy metals. So brown rice has a

1:12:29

lot of arsenic in the hull. Because of the

1:12:31

shells of them, right? So white

1:12:33

rice has less. White rice

1:12:35

still has metals. There are ways to minimize that.

1:12:37

So when you're eating white rice, you can parboil

1:12:40

it. There's actually been studies with white rice. So

1:12:42

to parboil rice, you take the rice, you want

1:12:44

to rinse the rice. Obviously, we're probably going to

1:12:46

get an organic rice. You

1:12:49

rinse the rice a number of times. You might

1:12:51

even ferment the rice overnight. Maybe put it in

1:12:53

apple cider vinegar. When you go to cook the

1:12:55

rice, you want the water to be boiling and

1:12:57

you dump the rice in only for like a

1:12:59

minute. Then you drain the water and then you

1:13:01

cook the rice again. That's parboiling the rice. That

1:13:03

reduces the metals in rice. When I eat white

1:13:05

rice, where the hell are these metals coming from?

1:13:07

The ground from the soil. The

1:13:10

earth is full of them. And it's not necessarily a

1:13:12

bad thing. These are just elements that occur on the

1:13:14

earth. You know, lead occurs in the soil. Uranium

1:13:17

occurs on the earth, you know, is the

1:13:19

soil of America when it comes to planting

1:13:22

crops or feeding

1:13:24

animals, is it corrupted? It's probably less nutrient

1:13:26

rich, right? We talk about the topsoil and

1:13:28

the amount of magnesium in topsoil. You talk

1:13:30

about factory farming or

1:13:33

monocrop agriculture. If

1:13:35

you plant plants

1:13:37

in the ground and then you just harvest them

1:13:40

and you plant more plants, the nutrients are going

1:13:42

one direction, right? They're going into the plant and

1:13:44

the plants moving off the ground. But it's so

1:13:46

deep. Like how why is it? It's only the

1:13:48

topsoil, right? The plants roots only go so far.

1:13:50

It doesn't really recycle. So the topsoil becomes depleted

1:13:55

in nutrients and the plants can still

1:13:57

grow, but there's a lot of evidence about the declining.

1:14:00

Quality of food based on the quality the soil it's

1:14:02

grown in now you've a garden in your backyard Maybe

1:14:04

not in Phoenix But in other places that soil could

1:14:06

be better and you could grow something and it might

1:14:08

have different amounts of metals

1:14:10

or nutrients in it that are not

1:14:13

harmful for you, but the metals in

1:14:15

food are coming from the ground

1:14:17

so Plants just tend to accumulate metals

1:14:20

in their seeds and so you see

1:14:22

metals and things like beans Chocolate

1:14:24

is actually an unfortunate one chocolate has a lot

1:14:26

of metals in it cadmium pretty high I got

1:14:28

a chocolate any well dark chocolate

1:14:30

right because milk chocolate is terrible for you

1:14:33

Well milk chocolate is like less cacao and

1:14:35

more sugar. So The

1:14:37

more cacao the darker the chocolate, but that's

1:14:40

better. Yeah. Well, it has more metals, right?

1:14:42

So Again, it's

1:14:44

it's like don't let perfect be the enemy of good perfect.

1:14:46

I'm just trying to get on a path It's

1:14:48

a balance right I just want

1:14:50

people understand that like if you have high

1:14:52

levels of heavy metals in your body and you eat chocolate every

1:14:54

day Because you love it Chocolate could

1:14:57

contribute I want to take a page back because

1:14:59

I know there's some gentleman out there that's listening

1:15:01

and he does testosterone testosterone So well, first of

1:15:03

all, what are the what are like the first

1:15:05

indications that you have low testosterone? Besides

1:15:08

getting tested and then to say

1:15:10

they did get tested it is

1:15:12

what do they do to build it back up?

1:15:14

Right, right. So again, we talked

1:15:16

about low libido erectile dysfunction probably depression

1:15:18

lack of motivation Trouble

1:15:21

gaining muscle mass. Those are probably the biggest

1:15:23

ones for life. That's what everybody nowadays complains

1:15:25

about But is that lack

1:15:28

of not moving around it could be that also

1:15:30

right? so you say you go to get

1:15:32

a test and your testosterone is low and Let's

1:15:35

just define low as like anything less than

1:15:37

four to five hundred on your

1:15:40

total testosterone Where do you want the number to be?

1:15:42

I mean it should be six seven hundred eight hundred

1:15:44

to be really fully You know, I everything one's gonna

1:15:46

be a little different and it also depends on your

1:15:49

Androgen receptors so you have a hormone and

1:15:51

then you have the receptors that receive it

1:15:53

that transmit the signal into the body So

1:15:56

there's receptors and then there's hormones and we

1:15:58

can talk about androgen receptors also But

1:16:01

how do you build it back up? You basically, you really

1:16:05

overhaul your life, which is hard, but I think when

1:16:07

it comes to testosterone for most of us men, there's

1:16:09

not much more important than like how we

1:16:11

feel, our strength, our mental clarity, our recovery,

1:16:13

libido, and sexual function. That's a big deal

1:16:15

for men. That gets attention of any man

1:16:17

if you're talking about that. So I think

1:16:19

most men are willing to go to pretty

1:16:21

great lengths to improve their testosterone. You

1:16:24

start with the quality of your diet and the

1:16:26

quality of your sleep. Those are the two biggest

1:16:28

things. And the sleep quality is just sleep enough,

1:16:30

sleep seven to eight hours a night, try and

1:16:32

go to sleep at the same time every night.

1:16:35

Sleep is... What happens if you travel

1:16:37

a lot? You have to just navigate it

1:16:39

as best you can. Does that matter how late you go

1:16:41

to bed? You know, it's probably,

1:16:45

it's hard to say. It's hard to say in the literature. I think

1:16:47

if you're consistently going to sleep at the

1:16:49

same time, even if it's late, it's

1:16:52

not ideal, but you can use one of the

1:16:54

bands and just monitor

1:16:56

your sleep quality and see how you feel. If

1:16:59

your testosterone is not great and you're going to

1:17:01

sleep really late, you might try and move it

1:17:03

earlier in the day. And you want to get

1:17:05

up at about the same time and you want

1:17:08

your sleep to be really high quality. Do you have a

1:17:10

cutoff on when you eat? Like, yeah, I have to be

1:17:12

done by here. Only in terms of

1:17:14

my last meal of the day, like the biggest meal, because

1:17:16

I don't want to be fully digesting when

1:17:18

I go to sleep. Is that bad for you to do that?

1:17:20

It's just hard to sleep. I think your body is doing too

1:17:23

many things at once, right? And I think a lot of people

1:17:25

see this. I don't use a sleep monitor. It's

1:17:27

just too many things. I can kind of tell how I sleep

1:17:29

when I wake up in the morning. But

1:17:31

I think most people can tell, or if you

1:17:33

use a band of some sort to monitor your

1:17:35

sleep, usually you see declining sleep

1:17:37

scores when you eat too close to sleeping

1:17:39

or when you drink before sleep. So alcohol

1:17:41

is going to interrupt your sleep architecture as

1:17:44

well. So you just, you have to really

1:17:46

protect your sleep. And that is not sexy

1:17:48

in like the traditional sense, but it's very sexy

1:17:51

in terms of hormones and sexual performance and all

1:17:53

these things. So yeah, I try

1:17:55

to stop eating maybe two hours before I go

1:17:57

to sleep with like the big meal, but I

1:17:59

don't stress. the idea of

1:18:01

intermittent fasting or feeding windows, I don't

1:18:03

worry about that so much. I literally

1:18:05

will sit him down around

1:18:07

two o'clock and we'll have steak and rice

1:18:09

and meat. Yeah. And then I'll go

1:18:11

to bed around like four. Yeah,

1:18:14

I heard you say that on the Barbara O'Neill podcast. I mean.

1:18:17

You know, it's so funny. He texted, he texted my team.

1:18:19

He goes, I know George is going to sleep in today.

1:18:22

I was like, all right, this is getting bad. I got to

1:18:24

fix this. I

1:18:26

knew you were traveling. I knew you, I knew you'd go to sleep at 4 a.m. We

1:18:29

just travel so much that like, I feel like my

1:18:32

brain went to like, I don't give a shit when I sleep or

1:18:34

wake up. As long as my work is done and I'm prepared and

1:18:36

all that stuff, but I start, I'm

1:18:38

starting to realize that it's chipping away and

1:18:42

I'm in my early thirties and I feel like I'm 50, bro. I'm

1:18:44

exhausted. Well, I heard you say on the podcast

1:18:46

with Barbara O'Neill, that's interesting. That's good that you're

1:18:49

honest with yourself about being exhausted. You

1:18:51

said on that podcast, you were like looking at your

1:18:53

phone, you went to sleep at 11 o'clock one night

1:18:56

and you felt really good. Really good. There's

1:18:59

a hint for you. I would love to

1:19:01

do like a really, like, I would

1:19:03

like to do like a thing with you where like we,

1:19:07

not as if you would even want to

1:19:09

do it, but monitor like a diet, a

1:19:11

workout plan and a theater for like 30

1:19:13

days and do blood work and go through

1:19:15

like the whole nine yards. You totally can.

1:19:17

Because I really want, this year, ever since

1:19:19

I moved into this house, I've been really

1:19:21

wanting to try to like hit discipline. I

1:19:23

feel like if I look

1:19:25

at my life and not just my life,

1:19:27

just my loved ones and gentlemen's like that

1:19:29

are out in the world working hard. I

1:19:31

think discipline kind of like took a step

1:19:33

back in this generation. I think my father's

1:19:35

generation really had discipline locked down. Like we're

1:19:37

outside and my dad is like cleaning my

1:19:39

backyard eight times faster in the heat

1:19:42

than I am. I'm like exhausted looking at this 60

1:19:44

year old man outwork me and he's like, no, we're

1:19:46

going to do this. I'm like, dude, I have a

1:19:48

guy that I paid the guy to do that, have

1:19:50

him do that. He's like, no, no, no, we do

1:19:52

it right now. And he's like, just keeps going. And

1:19:54

I'm like, he's either on cocaine or he's just way,

1:19:56

way, way more disciplined and healthier than me. And I

1:19:58

just don't want to be one of the. Because

1:20:00

I feel like this generation, the men

1:20:02

that are gonna survive and conquer are

1:20:04

the ones that have discipline and eat

1:20:06

and sleep properly. Work ethic. Yeah. And

1:20:09

that goes back to the convenience thing. Yeah. Like don't

1:20:11

be lazy. Discipline. That's my, if you look

1:20:13

at my screen right now, there's all

1:20:16

this crap there, but let me just try to, it

1:20:18

literally says James 1, 12, and

1:20:20

is blessed as the man who endures temptation.

1:20:22

And it basically talks about, not

1:20:24

just in heaven, but on earth, if you could

1:20:26

just go through like, for example, if my friends

1:20:28

are eating pizza and drinking Mountain Dew, I

1:20:31

should be at the stage of my life being like,

1:20:33

you know, I want to be sharp next week. I'm

1:20:35

not gonna have this garbage, but me, I'm like, I'm

1:20:38

the guy who ordered the pizza and brought it. You

1:20:41

gotta think about what it means to you. You know,

1:20:43

why would you make the hard decision? You have to

1:20:45

hold in your mind, like

1:20:47

the prize. Yeah. You know, what

1:20:49

does it mean to you? Why would you do these things? You have

1:20:51

to understand that every little decision

1:20:53

you make contributes to your health and your

1:20:55

performance long-term. And if you can see that,

1:20:58

none of these things are worth it, man. None of it is

1:21:00

worth it. When's the last time you had a pizza? Dude, I'm

1:21:02

the last person you want to ask that. It's probably been 15

1:21:04

to 20 years. Seriously? Yes.

1:21:08

Can I ask you something? No,

1:21:10

I don't because I get to eat, I

1:21:12

mean, what did I eat today? I ate grass-fed

1:21:14

beef hamburger. I ate spaghetti squash. I put some

1:21:16

raw cheese in it. You like, burgers

1:21:18

are my favorite thing in the world, but I'm

1:21:20

assuming your burger is different than my burger. I

1:21:22

didn't have, there was no bread on the burger.

1:21:24

Like I said, bro, you didn't have a burger,

1:21:26

dog. Don't insult the burger.

1:21:29

I had a beef back. You know? Say

1:21:31

that. No, no, just not

1:21:33

good. You didn't even have a lettuce wrap? No. You

1:21:35

know why? Because he doesn't eat plant leaves. I don't eat

1:21:37

plant leaves. Okay, wait, wait, I'm just talking about one line.

1:21:39

Would you rather have it with bread or plants? I would

1:21:41

rather have a lettuce than bread. Of course. No,

1:21:45

I mean. But so something I

1:21:47

would like to touch on, because I think

1:21:49

it's important that in order to fully fix

1:21:51

your gut, if you're trying to fix your

1:21:53

gut, you're trying to fix your testosterone, whatever

1:21:55

it might be that you're trying to fix,

1:21:57

would you say that being consistent is very

1:21:59

important? and that you can't like do a

1:22:01

week and then have a cheat meal

1:22:03

and then do another week and do a cheat meal. I'd also

1:22:06

like to add that she's talking the gut thing for me, not

1:22:08

the testosterone thing. No, I'm not. I'm an honest guy. No, because

1:22:10

you guys are speaking about that. I'll prove it to you right

1:22:12

now. I believe you, bro, I

1:22:14

believe you. So I think consistency is important

1:22:17

because when you do a cheat

1:22:19

meal, you

1:22:21

sort of frame the cheat meal as the

1:22:24

reward and you're saying, man, I'm

1:22:26

eating clean, but then I really get to eat this

1:22:28

thing that I really like. And

1:22:30

I think you kind of have to reframe it in your mind and realize

1:22:33

that your privilege is

1:22:35

eating the healthiest foods. Those are the best foods for

1:22:37

you. Like the junk food is not the privilege. Anybody

1:22:40

in the world can eat junk food. Anybody in

1:22:42

the world can go to KFC and eat fried

1:22:44

chicken or Burger King. Like that's not the privilege.

1:22:47

Very few people have the means or

1:22:49

the discipline or the awareness of their

1:22:51

priorities to intentionally create healthy meals. And

1:22:53

these meals, I don't like reading rabbit

1:22:56

food here, guys. We're not talking about

1:22:58

like pellets

1:23:00

of food. We're not talking about like

1:23:02

grape nuts or something. We're eating like steak and

1:23:04

eggs. Nuts are bad. Yeah, right? But

1:23:06

you don't remember that grape nut cereal? Did you ever seen

1:23:08

that? It's like these little rocks. I was

1:23:10

more like a cocoa puffs type of guy.

1:23:13

Cocoa puffs, yeah. We're not eating

1:23:15

like bland foods. We didn't even know you

1:23:17

can eat fruit, you can eat honey, you

1:23:19

can eat sweet potatoes with butter. Like these

1:23:21

are decadent foods. And when you

1:23:23

frame, when you include a cheat meal, you're

1:23:25

kind of sabotaging, I think, the

1:23:27

way that you're framing it. And this came up

1:23:30

on the podcast with Barbara O'Neill too. Some

1:23:32

foods affect your physiology for

1:23:34

longer than just the meal, especially if

1:23:36

you're gluten sensitive. So you eat gluten,

1:23:38

then it can really, it

1:23:41

can affect your immune system for weeks after you

1:23:43

eat it, even once or twice. So

1:23:46

you, it's just, some of these foods have

1:23:48

long lasting ripple effects that are not necessarily

1:23:50

magnified, but they persist. So I

1:23:52

think the longer that you can do good, the better you'll

1:23:54

feel and you'll get the more of that signal and it

1:23:57

helps with the behavior. I'm not saying you can never eat

1:23:59

pizza or you never have. and

1:28:00

rice and potato. The other group

1:28:02

gets 800 calories of processed food,

1:28:04

so a burger, and they match

1:28:06

the two groups for saltiness, for

1:28:09

protein, fat, carbohydrates, and this

1:28:11

processed food group consistently asks for more

1:28:13

food. These same amount of calories, they're

1:28:15

trying to match for macronutrients, protein,

1:28:18

fat, calories, salt, sugar, palatability, they're matching for

1:28:20

as much as they can. The

1:28:22

processed food group consistently wants more food, and over the course

1:28:25

of a two week study, they gain four pounds because they

1:28:27

eat 500 calories more per day. So

1:28:30

if I can just only give

1:28:32

you two, I only give

1:28:34

you one big mac a day and half a Coke, you'll

1:28:37

lose weight, but you won't be getting a lot of nutrients,

1:28:39

you will be accumulating other problematic things in these foods. We

1:28:41

can talk about seed oils and why I'm not a fan

1:28:43

of those, and how they kind of accumulate in your body.

1:28:46

They're present in a lot of processed foods, and you

1:28:48

will be miserable. You'll just be hungry all the time,

1:28:50

and I guarantee you that the minute I turn my

1:28:52

back, you're gonna sneak something. You're gonna

1:28:55

break out of this calorie prison because you're gonna be

1:28:57

miserable. This guy's a tyrant. He's only given me one

1:28:59

big mac and half a Coke a day, and I'm

1:29:01

losing weight, but I feel horrible. There

1:29:03

is another way, which is eating

1:29:06

better quality foods, and they don't have to

1:29:08

be quite as crazy about the calorie restriction

1:29:10

because you will have satiety. Hunger

1:29:12

is the enemy. Hunger's a really

1:29:14

hard thing to ignore as humans. We

1:29:16

don't like pain, and we don't like hunger. In a

1:29:18

lot of ways, we perceive hunger as a pain. It's

1:29:20

just, people say, I have hunger pains. People get hangry.

1:29:23

If you're hungry, yeah, that's a very uncomfortable place to

1:29:25

be. Hangry, me and my dad are the worst. The

1:29:27

nicest people in the world. If we don't have bread

1:29:29

and time, we'll kill you. Yeah, this is not a

1:29:32

good place to be. You're telling me

1:29:34

that you're gonna restrict calories for the rest of your life when

1:29:36

you get that hangry? You're lying

1:29:38

to yourself. Also, I like that you said that

1:29:40

you picture the weekend meal as

1:29:42

the prize, and that might mess you up

1:29:44

because when the weekend's done, you're like, God,

1:29:47

I have to wait another seven days. You're

1:29:49

like, what is Sunday gonna do? And then

1:29:51

Sunday becomes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And

1:29:53

then the Friday comes, you're like, it's the

1:29:55

weekend. And it's the celebration,

1:29:57

right? The celebration is, oh, I'm sorry. celebrating,

1:30:00

I'm gonna have pizza. I

1:30:02

mean, this is the completely wrong framing for parents and for

1:30:04

adults, right? I mean, I'm sure you guys are gonna have

1:30:06

kids and like, if you, I'm not gonna

1:30:08

tell you how to raise your kids, but if you frame the

1:30:10

reward as a kid with a cookie, man,

1:30:12

you're kind of setting them up for a problem, but all of us

1:30:15

have grown up that way. A lot of

1:30:17

us have grown up that way and we think like, oh,

1:30:19

the reward is a cookie. Well, guess what? I am an

1:30:21

adult now, I have a responsibility. I can eat cookies all

1:30:23

the time if I want. I'm just gonna eat cookies. But

1:30:25

where does that get you? I didn't

1:30:27

have a bad diet, you know, it's so funny. In

1:30:29

my pantry, we had a walk-in pantry. We had all

1:30:31

the chips, all the cookies, all the sodas, all this

1:30:34

stuff, and I didn't want them though, because my mom

1:30:36

cooked three times a day. So like, we would have

1:30:38

home cooked meals. It wasn't until I was an adult

1:30:40

by myself, like living on my own

1:30:42

that was too lazy to cook or do any of that

1:30:44

stuff, which I'm gonna teach my kids

1:30:46

how to cook for themselves. I think that was like

1:30:49

the missing step because when I was in the separation

1:30:51

of like, a mama bear or a good wife, like,

1:30:53

and I had no way to cook for myself, I

1:30:55

didn't know what I was doing. I

1:30:57

went to the McDonald's, I went to the Subway's, I went

1:30:59

to all that stuff. And I think that's where my addiction

1:31:02

grew, is like, oh, just take my money, give them my

1:31:04

food, and then I just got set in

1:31:06

a bad habit. But when I was a kid, it would

1:31:08

all be in front of me, and I wouldn't need it.

1:31:10

I was never hungry, nor did I thirst for that type

1:31:12

of stuff. We gotta mention this too, because I know people

1:31:14

are gonna ask, eating healthfully is

1:31:16

not necessarily more expensive either. This is the main

1:31:18

thing that I get pushed back on. Ooh, that's

1:31:20

a good thing, because you know what? You gotta

1:31:23

talk to my bank account then, I

1:31:25

disagree with you. I go to Whole

1:31:27

Foods and they take my whole account. That is not

1:31:29

true, and you know why? Why? Because

1:31:31

when you go to Taco Bell with Cabe, and

1:31:34

you guys spend like $80 on getting things, and

1:31:36

getting the Postmates, because you guys are chilling at

1:31:38

home, or when you're going out to dinner, you

1:31:40

know what I mean? And it accumulates. She just

1:31:42

went. Like when you go

1:31:44

to a nice dinner, and you spend- She just exposed you, bro. And you

1:31:47

spend $200 on a really nice meal, but

1:31:49

then you could've spent like, on a whole week's worth

1:31:51

of groceries for $200. Yeah, yeah. I think if you

1:31:54

actually do the math, George, and you actually are honest

1:31:56

about your finances, you'll see that

1:31:58

it's not. Okay, well I'm sorry. You're

1:32:00

out, you're having this podcast. No,

1:32:03

I mean, I've been to the stores and

1:32:05

look, I think everyone is gonna

1:32:07

come at this at a different financial space. I

1:32:10

think that I've done videos, $15 a day. And

1:32:13

I understand that some people can't afford 15 or

1:32:15

15 is kind of their. $15 a day is great. I

1:32:17

know, but I know that there's some people for which $15 a

1:32:19

day is a lot of money to spend on food. Where are they eating less

1:32:21

than $15 a day? I mean, that's like $450

1:32:23

a month, right? So for

1:32:25

some people, that's still kind of tough. But dude,

1:32:28

you go to Subway, it went from a $5

1:32:30

foot long to $6, six inches. I

1:32:32

know, yeah, yeah. So like, where are they getting their food

1:32:34

from? I don't know whether, I don't know. Yeah,

1:32:37

maybe. Ramen, beans and. Top

1:32:39

Ramen, got you, got you. But that's still unhealthy

1:32:42

though. Yeah, but you can do, so I went

1:32:44

to Costco and you can

1:32:46

eat a pretty darn healthy diet for

1:32:48

$15 a day at Costco. So I'm just saying that

1:32:50

like, it's doable. You know, you could definitely do 30

1:32:52

or 20 or whatever you want

1:32:54

to spend. I probably spend, you know, more than, I definitely

1:32:56

spend more than $15 a day on my food because

1:32:59

it's a priority for me. But I want people to understand that this

1:33:01

doesn't mean that you have to spend

1:33:03

a ton of money. Because you had the response, you

1:33:05

had the same knee jerk response. No, I go to

1:33:07

Whole Foods. You don't have to shop at Whole Foods.

1:33:09

You can shop at Aldi, you can shop at Costco.

1:33:11

Sprouts is super affordable. There's lots of places. You don't

1:33:13

have to eat ribeye steak every meal. You can do

1:33:15

ground beef. There are totally affordable ways

1:33:18

to do this. I just want people to understand that

1:33:20

they're, I don't want that to be an impediment for

1:33:22

them in their mind because they think like, I can't

1:33:24

eat, it's too expensive. And then when you actually do

1:33:26

the math between going out and junk food, it's way

1:33:28

more expensive to do that. And then you're

1:33:30

paying the piper long term, right? How much is

1:33:33

your diabetes costing you in terms of quality of

1:33:35

life or cancer? Okay, so that's where I,

1:33:37

this kid hit me. I was at Air One and

1:33:40

I used to make fun of anybody who was at

1:33:42

Air One. I was like, bro, you're dumb. And you're

1:33:44

only being here to either one, try to get a

1:33:46

chick or two, look like a baller, bro. Like you're

1:33:48

just dumb. And I don't ever go to the like

1:33:51

spend to get friends or stuff like that. So I'm

1:33:53

sitting there and I'm like, all right, like I'm gonna

1:33:55

go see if there's actually a healthy alternative. Like maybe

1:33:57

I do need to spend. that money and when I

1:33:59

got to the checkout it was so expensive bro and

1:34:02

I looked at it I was like bro I just

1:34:04

got raw milk for like 30 bucks so what is

1:34:06

this what's going on here and he looked me in

1:34:08

my eyes he goes either pay for it now with

1:34:10

health foods or pay for it

1:34:12

later for with medication yeah and I was

1:34:14

like damn take my money yeah

1:34:18

yeah he by the way he

1:34:20

needs to get promoted no

1:34:23

I'm not gonna give him props but yeah

1:34:25

no that was it that was a really

1:34:30

good like thing that kind of I reflected

1:34:32

on cuz I'm like yeah you will pay for it but

1:34:34

you don't even have to go to Erewhon you could do it

1:34:36

it's Safeway you know you could do it at Aldi you could

1:34:38

do it at Costco you could do it at Sprouts you don't

1:34:40

Erewhon is like the you know it's a scene

1:34:42

yeah it really is a scene yeah you don't have

1:34:44

to do it there you don't have to go to

1:34:46

Whole Foods let's talk about protein yeah I

1:34:49

wasn't into taking protein shakes I kind of like

1:34:51

stopped doing that and then when I just recently

1:34:53

like two weeks ago just started taking protein shakes

1:34:55

every day I feel like more

1:34:57

dense and way more energy and I

1:34:59

feel like like two

1:35:01

of me before one was like very fatigued and one is

1:35:03

not how serious is protein shakes

1:35:05

to you and what

1:35:08

kind of protein do you take so

1:35:10

I don't do protein shakes but I see

1:35:12

the utility of it and for you it

1:35:14

makes a lot of sense it's simple it's

1:35:16

easy you can make protein plus raw milk

1:35:18

or juice or water and basically blend it

1:35:21

with a banana and you have a meal

1:35:23

that's great and it's just the thing

1:35:25

to consider is the quality of the protein the additives and

1:35:27

the weird stuff in the protein powder but I see the

1:35:30

utility we're kind of back to what

1:35:32

we talked about earlier I would always opt for the

1:35:34

food if you can so I but isn't that food

1:35:36

just blend it it is but like

1:35:39

when you have a protein powder there is some

1:35:41

processing of it right so I think that like

1:35:43

got it it's not like like so for instance

1:35:45

whey protein right it's

1:35:49

it's not milk it's not a full glass of milk

1:35:51

there they've separated the whey protein from the milk and

1:35:53

there's not as much calcium and all these things there's

1:35:56

components of milk that are

1:35:58

missing from whey protein and if If I'm in

1:36:00

a pinch or I'm traveling, I will

1:36:02

do a protein shake from time to time. But

1:36:04

generally, I see it as like, if I'm prepared

1:36:07

and I'm eating steak, that's a better choice. But

1:36:09

I think that there's a utility for this for

1:36:11

people. And I can imagine on the go, post-workout,

1:36:14

pre-workout, there's a lot of utility for this. I

1:36:16

just want people to know that just understand the

1:36:18

quality of the protein. My issues with protein powders

1:36:20

are that a lot of them have significant amounts

1:36:22

of heavy metals. This has been shown

1:36:25

time and time again. And the plant-based proteins actually

1:36:27

have more heavy metals. A

1:36:29

lot of proteins are contaminated with BPA. I'm

1:36:31

sorry, one second. I

1:36:35

don't want to have the whey. No, George, take this

1:36:37

protein. It's so much better for you. OK,

1:36:39

you want to show him the protein that you use? No.

1:36:42

OK. Right. So they're

1:36:45

contaminated with BPA also. So BPA is

1:36:48

bisphenol A, endocrine disruptor, heavy metals. You

1:36:50

just got another quality. Not every

1:36:52

protein is horrible. Some of them are better than others.

1:36:54

Like, get a good one. What's this protein? So

1:36:57

I wanted to build a company. This is Lineage.

1:36:59

This is my stuff. I brought it for you,

1:37:01

right? So this is Meat Sticks. Yeah,

1:37:04

so this is our animal-based protein. So wait, you

1:37:06

don't believe in protein shakes, but you supply protein

1:37:08

shakes. Because I know people want this. And I

1:37:10

understand that I can create this in my ethos

1:37:12

for people. Well, that's honest. Yeah. That's honest. So

1:37:14

you can give them a better source of protein.

1:37:16

Yes, and so I built this. Did you grab

1:37:18

my protein that's under the counter? Do you know

1:37:20

where it is? It's in that I want to

1:37:22

just compare. Oh, and grab the

1:37:24

next to it. There's also. Oh,

1:37:26

I'm sorry. So look at the ingredients in there. Yeah, I

1:37:28

want to break this down because I want

1:37:31

you to tell me what's in this versus the other one.

1:37:33

Because, bro, I'm

1:37:36

just real stupid when it comes to this type of

1:37:38

things. I used to think I

1:37:40

knew a lot, too, which is hilarious. We have

1:37:42

a plant one and a whey one. Yeah. Perfect.

1:37:44

OK, so I want you to kind of

1:37:46

go through. And no shots at these

1:37:48

companies. I mean,

1:37:51

damn, they're all shots. I

1:37:53

want you to tell me what is not

1:37:56

good about this and what

1:37:58

is good about this. But be honest. I know

1:38:00

this is your product. I want you to break

1:38:02

it down in an intellectual way intellectual

1:38:04

way so that way People

1:38:07

like me that have no guidance in

1:38:09

the health right unity kid. Let's

1:38:11

look at the term Here's

1:38:16

the plant one awesome well, that's just in

1:38:18

your eyes That's that's just like not

1:38:21

good cuz it's playing you don't like plants It's not good

1:38:23

because it's plant protein and then we can look at other

1:38:25

stuff. So this is a this is a whey protein I

1:38:28

used to do this when I was in college. So I started lifting

1:38:30

weights when I was in college and I've

1:38:32

been Exactly here man,

1:38:34

right? So this is ways

1:38:36

from it's from milk and whey is

1:38:38

a very bioavailable protein It's a good

1:38:40

protein source and this is a

1:38:42

great whey protein isolate. There's also whey

1:38:45

protein concentrates It's

1:38:48

it's it's probably a very bioavailable protein

1:38:50

for your muscles The issue that

1:38:52

I have with a lot of these is if you read the

1:38:54

other ingredients You have natural

1:38:56

flavor 500 milligrams. What is that? I

1:38:58

don't know. I have no

1:39:01

idea like neither Natural

1:39:03

flavor can be a lot of things but it's

1:39:05

natural though. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily they can do

1:39:07

weird They can do natural they say natural flavors

1:39:10

and then they'll be like I don't know They

1:39:13

can do weird they can do easy

1:39:16

stuff with natural flavor like guys guys

1:39:18

easy stuff. All right, so it's not

1:39:20

natural then It I'm

1:39:22

sure there's a lot of chicaneery here with

1:39:24

natural flavor who knows maybe it's maybe it's

1:39:26

not so bad Second ingredient xanthan gum Anytime

1:39:29

I see a gum I worry about people's guts You

1:39:32

know xanthan gum There's not a ton of

1:39:34

medical literature to suggest that it's like yet been shown to

1:39:37

be harmful But I just I just don't like gums so

1:39:39

that one you're holding is lineage. We'll go through that one

1:39:41

in a second That's when I built there's no gums in

1:39:43

there for that reason. There's no natural flavor in that one

1:39:45

So all the stuff I'm reading in here on this

1:39:48

one is the stuff I didn't want in mine The

1:39:50

next ingredient is sucralose sucralose

1:39:52

is essentially Like

1:39:55

a artificial sweetener. It's Splenda and

1:39:57

I worry about is that something that you like

1:39:59

though I don't use sucralose or spandex.

1:40:01

What's the sugar that you like? Oh Stevia or monk

1:40:03

fruit Yeah, we can talk about those in a second.

1:40:06

So those are quote natural Sweeteners,

1:40:09

we'll get to that. So sucralose is kind

1:40:11

of like aspartame Ace case sucralose There's definitely

1:40:13

evidence in humans and animal models that this

1:40:15

could affect satiety in weird ways We don't

1:40:17

actually understand what these are doing and they

1:40:19

definitely affect the way the gut flora is

1:40:21

talking to each other And

1:40:23

then the last thing in here is sunflower

1:40:25

lecithin, which is a sort of an anti

1:40:27

caking agent from sunflowers So none of those

1:40:29

are in the protein powder that I

1:40:31

built and again I want people to get just something that's

1:40:34

clean and I just built it because people ask for it

1:40:36

So what's in that? It's grass-fed

1:40:38

beef from the whole animal. Oh, I can

1:40:40

just tell you I don't know Yeah, you

1:40:42

created. Yeah, so it's grass-fed beef and that's

1:40:44

just actually like the whole carcass So there's

1:40:46

collagen and muscle meat kind of In

1:40:50

the protein so it has a balance of amino

1:40:52

acids So talk to me about this the grass-fed

1:40:54

beef now you say you'd rather eat it than

1:40:57

take the powder of it What's the

1:40:59

difference from eating it versus

1:41:01

this right here? It's basically like dehydrated So

1:41:03

it's pretty close But I think that you

1:41:05

know like when you dehydrate something you're

1:41:07

gonna lose some of the nutrients I can't preserve everything but

1:41:10

it's the best we can do and you were talking about

1:41:12

that There was like thousands of things in it that we

1:41:14

haven't necessarily. Yeah, we don't even know what's in it There's

1:41:16

you know you look at the nutritional label and there's maybe

1:41:18

25 things on here But there's 42,000 components

1:41:21

and meat which you're getting in

1:41:23

a beef protein and I have no problem with whey protein

1:41:25

Also, I think whey protein can be great But

1:41:27

then you have the organs so we put the

1:41:29

organs in there, and you won't taste them So

1:41:32

there's liver kidney spleen and pancreas in there. There's

1:41:34

colostrum which is the An

1:41:36

immunoglobulin rich first milk from animals a lot of

1:41:39

people are excited about colostrum right now colostrum potentially

1:41:41

helpful for the gut There's

1:41:43

a little bit of Freeze-dried fruit. There's

1:41:46

a little bit of sea salt. There's a little

1:41:48

bit of coconut water powder, but

1:41:50

there's no gums There's no fillers.

1:41:52

There's no artificial sweeteners in there, so

1:41:54

there's no sucralose. There's no stevia So

1:41:57

this is a protein powder, and this is again.

1:41:59

This is the protein that I eat when I'm

1:42:01

traveling occasionally, and it's the way that I

1:42:03

would want it. You just have to make a smoothie out of it with

1:42:05

something like a banana or honey and raw milk to give it the flavor.

1:42:08

But I would bet you that if

1:42:10

you took this in water and yours in water, yours might

1:42:12

taste better in the short term because it has artificial sweetener,

1:42:14

but I just worry about what the other things are doing

1:42:16

in there. And then when I

1:42:18

can build a protein powder, and this is a fun thing

1:42:20

about being at this position, is I can know what's in

1:42:22

that beef and I can test it for heavy metals. What's

1:42:25

the quality of the way in this protein powder?

1:42:27

Maybe they're gonna tell you the certificate of analysis

1:42:29

here and show you that they're testing for heavy

1:42:31

metals, but everything that I'm gonna make, I'm

1:42:34

gonna test for heavy metals and get stuff with the

1:42:36

lowest amounts possible. So that's just like the

1:42:38

way I want it to build a protein powder. Did you move

1:42:40

your mic like? Yeah, that's the way I want

1:42:42

to build a protein powder. Now I'll do this one. Okay,

1:42:45

so this is made from pea protein,

1:42:50

hemp protein, and organic goji berry, and

1:42:53

the problem I have with pea protein is just that

1:42:55

it's not as bioavailable as the animal-based

1:42:57

protein, and then, I

1:42:59

mean, it's got great branding. They

1:43:01

left out the A. I think they misspelled it,

1:43:04

but that's good marketing, you know? Plint. Plint.

1:43:06

Plint. But I don't know,

1:43:08

do they show a certificate of analysis? What's the heavy

1:43:11

metals in here? They have

1:43:13

natural flavors in this one. They

1:43:15

have chocolate. Again, not the end of the world,

1:43:17

just know if the chocolate, what's the source of

1:43:19

the chocolate? Does it have heavy metal testing? This

1:43:22

has guar gum, so you have another gum, and

1:43:24

again, it's like, is this causing the

1:43:27

issues? How do they put a gum in this stuff?

1:43:29

I think it makes it creamier, you know? The

1:43:31

mouthfeel of these things is important. It's like

1:43:33

you're, I know you want some

1:43:35

more meat sticks. Yeah, stop, chill out. Tommy, Tommy.

1:43:37

I'm not gonna hear Tommy. Tommy,

1:43:40

go, go, go, go. Oh, he smells it. You got

1:43:42

a meat stick. Call him, call him, call him. He

1:43:44

pulled out one of the lineage meat sticks, yeah, yeah.

1:43:46

So, they just snacking on it. He's snacking on one of

1:43:48

the lineage meat sticks. That's that right there. That's this one,

1:43:50

yeah. When would you use this product? So I use this

1:43:52

one, I'm traveling every time I travel on a plane and

1:43:54

stuff. What is this for? Protein, or is it just like?

1:43:56

It's protein, yeah. It was a separation, I'm trying to ask.

1:43:59

So this one is a protein. protein shake and that one's

1:44:01

just a meat stick. That's a snack. How many of these

1:44:03

do you have? A day? Yeah.

1:44:06

on a plane. But it's not bad for

1:44:08

you. No, no, it's great. That's just grass fed beef

1:44:10

and organs and basically salt and collagen. Which

1:44:14

one would you say retains most of its nutrients? Because

1:44:16

I know that if it's dehydrated or freeze dried it

1:44:18

keeps 90%. So versus. Yeah,

1:44:20

so this is air dried. So that's closer

1:44:22

to the original thing, you know? Okay. You

1:44:25

want a piece? Come on. I love this meat.

1:44:27

I'm so excited for this meat. Let this be your first meat. Listen,

1:44:30

I haven't had meat in

1:44:32

over 10 years. I've lost count now, but

1:44:34

I haven't had meat in over 10 years.

1:44:36

So I don't even know where I would

1:44:39

begin or how my stomach would react. Or

1:44:41

I don't know if I can get past the mental

1:44:43

part of it. You could

1:44:45

start slow. I'm gonna be honest with you, bro. What do you think?

1:44:49

Growing up my friends would have slim gyms and all

1:44:51

that stuff and I took a bite and I looked

1:44:53

at them like you guys all belong in a trailer

1:44:55

park. It's disgusting. This.

1:44:59

It doesn't have that weird taste. Reed was actually explaining

1:45:01

it in a good way. How would you explain this

1:45:03

versus like all those other jerkies? There's

1:45:05

no weird aftertaste. Yeah. And it's not like gravy.

1:45:08

It just tastes like real dried meat. And I

1:45:10

like that I could feed this to my dog.

1:45:13

Because there's so many times I'm eating something.

1:45:16

That sounds so stupid. But I

1:45:18

want to give it to him. But Bell's like, no, you

1:45:20

can't give him a flaming hot Dorito. He'll die. I'm like.

1:45:23

Yeah, no. And even like for

1:45:25

Tommy, like his treats are literally just dried

1:45:28

chicken or dried beef. That's it. Like

1:45:30

that's the only ingredient that's dried, you know? It's basically what

1:45:32

these are. These are air dried. Which is amazing. Yeah, this

1:45:35

was fun to make too. It's just fun to make things

1:45:37

that like don't exist in the market. How'd you

1:45:39

make this? Like what made you come up

1:45:41

with this? Because I, because

1:45:43

there were, the reason I made both of these things

1:45:45

for this company and lineage is because they didn't exist.

1:45:48

Because there was no protein powder that I could find that

1:45:50

didn't have these gums and the artificial sweeteners. And there was no

1:45:52

meat stick that I wanted to eat. If you go to the

1:45:54

store and you get meat sticks, most of them are cooked.

1:45:57

You know, like the other meat stick brands Wait,

1:46:00

this is not cooked? No, it's air dried for

1:46:02

five days. It never goes

1:46:04

above like 78 degrees Fahrenheit. So this is

1:46:06

raw? Sort of. It's

1:46:10

like jerky. But it's dried out, right? Like jerky's

1:46:12

air. Jerky's raw? Yeah, jerky, it

1:46:14

doesn't really get cooked. Jerky just gets dried

1:46:16

with air. Yeah. He's

1:46:21

just, his brain is like boom right now. Yeah, just

1:46:23

so many. It is in your own way. So many,

1:46:25

so many, so many. Tommy's, I'm

1:46:27

so excited. Let's get into working out. What

1:46:30

kind of workouts do you do? So I

1:46:33

surf every day in Costa Rica. I love being

1:46:36

in the ocean, grounding, morning sunlight,

1:46:39

and then just the, like

1:46:42

the actual, the paddling, the balance, I love

1:46:44

balance sports. I like these things that activate

1:46:46

my brain, like I like slack lining. So

1:46:49

I surf every day when I'm in Costa Rica. And then

1:46:52

I'm getting back into jiu-jitsu a little bit, and a little bit of

1:46:54

Muay Thai and striking. Yeah. I

1:46:57

just got back into it and I shot on some kid,

1:47:00

and he slid back, and all of my

1:47:02

fingers went straight into the ground. Has

1:47:05

that happened to you? No. Bro, I've

1:47:07

been, I did jiu-jitsu my whole life growing

1:47:10

up. When I got back into

1:47:12

it, it was literally one week into it. And

1:47:14

I, like, I can't, even if I

1:47:16

hold my phone too long now, or if I close

1:47:19

my, they hurt so bad, bro. It hurts so bad.

1:47:21

And I quit. It's like gluten, bro.

1:47:23

Immediately quit. Immediately quit. I was like,

1:47:25

oh, dude, I'll just grab a pistol. If

1:47:28

I need to self-defense. But I

1:47:30

like the striking. I like the wrestling. So I'm getting back

1:47:32

into that in Costa Rica with

1:47:34

a gym in town where I live. And

1:47:37

then I do some body weight kind of calisthenics. I don't

1:47:39

lift a lot of weights. I don't like lifting weights. Like

1:47:41

today, what do I do? I almost

1:47:44

got arrested at the school, but I just went to

1:47:46

a playground and I found a swing set, and I

1:47:48

did pull-ups. I'll hang and do kind of

1:47:50

like L-sit type stuff. And then I

1:47:52

did sprints. Amazing. I

1:47:54

heard sprints, speaking of testosterone. I

1:47:57

heard sprints, or is. insane

1:48:01

for testosterone. Like, sorry I'm

1:48:03

eating as the amount of soda. You

1:48:06

know this is not cooked. It's raw,

1:48:08

bro. Air dried. Sprinting

1:48:11

is like really, really good for fat loss and

1:48:13

testosterone. Do you know why? I don't

1:48:15

know the mechanism. I think that the, what I love about

1:48:17

sprinting is just, I was really, I'm slow.

1:48:19

I'm a slow runner and I like that it's hard, but

1:48:22

it's just intense for a short amount of time. I used to distance

1:48:24

run. So when I was in

1:48:26

college, I ran distance, not competitively, and then when

1:48:29

I was after college, I started doing ultra marathons.

1:48:31

So I was running like 50 mile races, which is crazy. I

1:48:33

liked it because I got in the wilderness for a long amount

1:48:36

of time, but I used to run so long and now I

1:48:38

just think, oh forget it. I just want to sprint. Yeah,

1:48:41

I don't know how, there's like a running high

1:48:43

that people get addicted to. There is a running

1:48:45

high. The thing with running that I worry about

1:48:47

for myself and for other people is just that

1:48:49

it's a powerful medicine, often overused. You can easily

1:48:51

kind of put yourself in this chronic overtraining or

1:48:53

high cortisol state if you train too hard with

1:48:55

running. And I was doing that for sure. Doesn't

1:48:57

it got to wear and tear out your body

1:48:59

too? It can, I think it depends on how

1:49:01

you strike the ground. So the form of the

1:49:03

running, like forefoot striking versus heel striking, this is

1:49:05

getting fairly technical. I think affects the way

1:49:07

that your joints, I mean my joints are fine. So like

1:49:09

this? As opposed to forefoot

1:49:11

striking. I think that, yes, so my perspective

1:49:14

is that the human body is

1:49:16

meant, the mechanics of our ankle and our

1:49:18

knee is meant to forefoot strike when you

1:49:20

are sprinting and when you're distance running. And

1:49:22

walking is a heel strike motor pattern. Running

1:49:24

is a forefoot strike motor pattern. I can

1:49:26

show you outside. Interesting. Yeah, but

1:49:28

a lot of our shoes today. Lace up.

1:49:31

You don't even need to, we'll go barefoot. Dude, I'm

1:49:34

fast. I know that you're gonna think

1:49:36

I'm not, but like when I was a kid, I

1:49:38

used to like compete and I was really fast. And

1:49:40

then these YouTubers all gathered and they're all athletes.

1:49:42

There was like hundreds of them that showed up.

1:49:45

I made top five. Really? And

1:49:47

I ate pizza every day for that. I never trained.

1:49:49

Some people ask you a quick bro. I bet you're

1:49:51

quick bro. I

1:49:53

don't doubt it. I think I saw that. I can

1:49:55

come outside. You're

1:49:58

good bro. Look at your shoe. Look

1:50:00

at your shoes. There's a huge heel

1:50:02

on that shoe. And that messes with

1:50:04

our proprioception when we're running. So

1:50:06

that's not the way we're supposed to be. I

1:50:09

like zero drop shoes. Kind of like, oh dang. The

1:50:11

flatter shoes. So you go into, oh man, okay.

1:50:13

That's not my ballerinas, okay. These are just

1:50:15

chilling shoes, but I have, I brought shoes because

1:50:17

you said we're gonna do some stuff. We're gonna

1:50:19

go jungle, desert adventuring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are.

1:50:22

I'm gonna take them off-roading. Ooh, you're gonna love

1:50:24

it. So question, do you also

1:50:26

take this mindset that

1:50:28

you have and are you those type of guys

1:50:31

that are like, no, I don't wear fake clothing

1:50:33

or the plastic clothing. Do you follow this type

1:50:35

of pattern with your shampoos, conditioners,

1:50:37

body washers? Yeah, I do. Oh, bro, okay, let's

1:50:39

dive into this. It's everything. I mean, again, I

1:50:41

don't want it to be overwhelming for people but

1:50:44

we live in a strange world where there's

1:50:47

a lot of affronts. There's

1:50:49

a lot of insults to our hormones and to our health.

1:50:51

And I try to

1:50:53

be conscientious as much

1:50:55

of the cycle as I can. So I'm thinking about the water that

1:50:57

I'm drinking, right? I'm filtering my water,

1:50:59

I'm not drinking tap water. I'm thinking about the clothes that

1:51:01

I'm wearing. I'm not wearing plastic clothes, I'm wearing cotton. I

1:51:04

think these have a little bit of stretch in them but this

1:51:06

is a wool shirt that I got on Amazon. It's nothing fancy.

1:51:09

And when I wear underwear, it's cotton underwear. Most

1:51:11

of the time in Costa Rica, I'm just like commando

1:51:13

in my shorts or in my board shorts. And

1:51:16

when I'm showering, yeah, if I'm using anything in

1:51:18

the shower, which I usually don't, I'm just gonna use

1:51:20

simple things, baking soda, apple cider vinegar, or products that

1:51:23

are as clean as I can get. Oh, you're a

1:51:25

jungle boy. I'm kind of a jungle homie. Bro,

1:51:28

okay, hold on. So you don't

1:51:30

use shampoo, conditioner, soap? No, I'm not

1:51:33

saying it's bad. I'm just saying that like in

1:51:36

Costa Rica, there's nothing and I would just

1:51:38

rather use nothing. I mean, I swim

1:51:40

every morning for two hours in the ocean. What

1:51:42

made you go to Costa Rica? I love to

1:51:44

surf. And I just, I

1:51:47

think that, so I didn't tell you this

1:51:49

part of the story but when I got out of college,

1:51:51

I spent three and a half months hiking from Mexico to

1:51:53

Canada on the Pacific Crest Trail. So

1:51:55

I've just always had this love of a

1:51:57

wilderness and outdoors and nature. in

1:52:00

space and. How funny is it that you're a

1:52:02

social media guy? Yeah, I know right?

1:52:04

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like that's

1:52:06

like, I like to be outdoors,

1:52:08

but I'm creating content for people that are indoors. It's

1:52:11

an interesting thing. You can do both, right? I have

1:52:13

this little, I mean, this is interesting to

1:52:15

say. So I also think about EMFs and WiFi in

1:52:18

my house. I'm not sure that we fully understand how

1:52:20

much radio frequency EMF affects us as humans. I

1:52:22

think the jury's still out on that. So at

1:52:25

my house I have a WiFi router, but the

1:52:27

WiFi's off and I just have an Ethernet cord

1:52:29

that comes out and goes into my computer. So

1:52:31

that little tethering cord is amazing because I can

1:52:33

create content that hopefully people find value and

1:52:35

I can live in the jungle and surf

1:52:38

every day and hang out at the river

1:52:40

and just send information packets through the Ethernet

1:52:42

cord into the universe. Which is amazing.

1:52:44

Yeah, it's pretty cool. And so it seems like

1:52:46

most of your workouts are based outside. You'd do

1:52:48

that purposefully for the sun. Well, yeah,

1:52:51

I just don't like indoor lighting also, right? So

1:52:54

again, I don't want this to be too much for people,

1:52:56

but this is the stuff I think about. You

1:52:58

were asking me today, you work out outdoors. I could

1:53:00

have gone this morning and gone to a gym. I

1:53:02

could have gone to Lifetime or found whatever, LA Fitness.

1:53:05

I don't even want to go under the blue light. It

1:53:07

just doesn't make me feel good. It's flickering. I don't like

1:53:09

the way it feels to work out under blue light now.

1:53:12

If I have a choice, I'm not completely averse to

1:53:14

it, but I'd prefer to have natural lighting. It just

1:53:16

feels good to be outside in full spectrum light. That's

1:53:18

not flickering. You know, most of the lights that we

1:53:21

use flicker. And I think this is one of the

1:53:23

reasons our phones are so addictive. Because

1:53:25

it's a flickering light. You can't tell that it's

1:53:27

flickering, but your phone is flickering. Your computer is

1:53:29

flickering. And that

1:53:31

attracts us as humans. It's like kids can't look

1:53:33

away from television. I don't know if

1:53:36

you've ever been driving on a road and had somebody

1:53:38

come towards you at night with the cheap headlights that

1:53:40

flicker, or you can see them flickering, or there's a

1:53:42

flickering light in the distance. We cannot look away from

1:53:44

that as humans. There's just a programming in our brain

1:53:46

that tells us to look at that. So I think

1:53:48

so many of the devices we have are

1:53:51

purposefully, not personally addictive for us, because they're

1:53:53

looking, they're flickering. Who knows how this is

1:53:55

infectious? Oh, it's definitely addictive. Yeah, it's super

1:53:57

addictive. They're doing that for a reason. Super

1:53:59

addictive. I want to talk about the

1:54:01

Sun because I'm the Barbara O'Neill episode I was

1:54:03

like get that cancer juice away

1:54:05

from me when it came to the sunscreen Hilarious,

1:54:09

bro, because that that got triggered and

1:54:11

we like you're not demonetized but it

1:54:13

was like it got What

1:54:15

is it when it's like? Back check he got

1:54:17

flagged and it was like this is full some

1:54:19

blah blah blah and that week I went to

1:54:21

Lake Powell and man, I got a

1:54:24

badass sunburn dude It was like it was so bad

1:54:26

that I had to use sunscreen So I

1:54:28

sprayed that cancer shit on me and I

1:54:30

was laughing because I was like man the internet smacked

1:54:32

me in the face It was like shut up and

1:54:34

then the earth was like shut up and I was

1:54:36

like, okay I'm gonna maybe put the this do you

1:54:38

know I'm still hurting like that's why if you see

1:54:41

this episode I've been like moving around This

1:54:44

is super important. We gotta talk about this So I don't

1:54:46

understand how they could fact-check you on that because there are multiple

1:54:49

components of sunscreen that have been linked

1:54:52

to harm in the human body like

1:54:54

not everything in sunscreen, but Like

1:54:57

I think it's like octobenzone ava benzone

1:54:59

oxybenzone We know that

1:55:01

these compounds that go on our skin are absorbed through

1:55:03

the skin Extreated in the poop and the pee and

1:55:06

they affect us at a hormonal level I

1:55:09

have to look at the literature on cancer connection

1:55:11

that may not be proven yet But these are

1:55:13

in our bodies potentially causing harm Yeah, we know

1:55:15

that a number of the components in the sunscreens

1:55:17

are also definitely harming coral reefs also So you

1:55:20

got to protect like the whole ecosystem that you live in now Beyond

1:55:24

that there's this really fascinating Set

1:55:27

of anecdote on Twitter or X whatever of

1:55:29

people who have eliminated seed oils from their

1:55:31

diet George And they used to be

1:55:34

super sensitive to the Sun and they no longer are and

1:55:36

this is not a randomized controlled trial dude I've

1:55:38

never ever been like

1:55:41

anywhere near Allergic to

1:55:43

the Sun I was I was in Arizona

1:55:45

I would be outside all the time never

1:55:47

got a sunburn never got a sun rash

1:55:49

We had we went to Cabo st. Lucas

1:55:51

their son is something ridiculous went out there

1:55:53

days never got a burn never got Irritation

1:55:55

that's weird, but then when I lived on

1:55:57

my own and I started eating outside The

1:56:00

sun started messing me up. Eating junk food. Yes. Yes.

1:56:03

Fast food, that's all I eat. So this is

1:56:05

really interesting. It's just an observation. This is an

1:56:07

anecdote, but this is really fascinating hypothesis to generate.

1:56:09

What's the matter with the fish change colors? It

1:56:12

has to do something with your skin. Well, so

1:56:14

the idea is that, so the hypothesis here is

1:56:16

that these seed oils, so let's go back to

1:56:18

seed oils too, because we didn't totally talk about

1:56:20

this, but I think seed oils are at the

1:56:22

center of this conversation around health food and non-health

1:56:25

food. I'm sorry to ask this.

1:56:27

I'm gonna tell you. What is seed oils?

1:56:29

Seed oils are corn, canola, sunflower, safflower, soybean,

1:56:31

grape seed. They're made from the seeds of

1:56:33

plants. And if you've ever seen

1:56:35

a seed oil factory, it looks like an oil

1:56:38

refinery, because it is an oil refinery. But were

1:56:40

you just saying that seeds are bad for us?

1:56:43

I'm telling you, seed oils are harmful for

1:56:45

humans. No, but in general, remember Dr. Gundry,

1:56:48

he would like to see tomatoes and stuff. Aren't

1:56:51

you not supposed to have the seeds? I don't

1:56:53

think you're supposed to have the seeds, but seed

1:56:55

oils are prevalent, pervasive in our food

1:56:57

supply. They're the most common. I mean,

1:56:59

you look at any, I don't know if you have junk food in

1:57:01

the house. Why do they use it? It's

1:57:03

cheaper, it has a preservative effect,

1:57:05

and in the medical literature, it

1:57:08

lowers cholesterol, but we can talk about why

1:57:10

that's a challenging thing, because it's

1:57:12

not clear that it actually does anything, I

1:57:14

think it does bad things for us while

1:57:16

it's lowering cholesterol. It actually increases the propensity

1:57:18

of cholesterol to become oxidized. So

1:57:21

one of the worst things that can

1:57:23

happen to your LDL cholesterol is for

1:57:25

it to become oxidized. When LDL cholesterol

1:57:27

becomes, quote, rusted, it's a much stronger

1:57:29

risk factor for cardiovascular disease. When you

1:57:32

eat more seed oils, your LDL becomes

1:57:34

full of components of the seed oils,

1:57:36

specifically linoleic acid, and that LDL becomes

1:57:38

more fragile, and it becomes oxidized more

1:57:40

easily. So seed oils, corn, canola, sunflower,

1:57:43

safflower, soybean, in all of

1:57:45

the junk food, Doritos, McDonald's,

1:57:47

like it's all cooked in seed oils. This

1:57:49

is pervasive. This is probably one of

1:57:51

the major drivers, I think, of illness in humans. It's

1:57:54

that spark for the LDL. Eventually,

1:57:57

yes. Eventually, yes, because.

1:57:59

components of the seed oils accumulate

1:58:02

in our bodies. And I think that they

1:58:04

gradually cause stress at the level of

1:58:06

our membranes, because there is

1:58:08

a fatty acid in seed oils called

1:58:10

linoleic acid, and it's a polyunsaturated fat.

1:58:13

And what we know about this fat is that

1:58:15

it's kinda stuck in your body. It takes two

1:58:17

to three years based on the, like

1:58:20

the kinetic studies we have for this to get out of

1:58:22

your body. What about me? I

1:58:24

mean. No, I'm being serious, what happens if I ate it

1:58:26

so much? Is it gonna be longer now because of? No,

1:58:28

no, no, but it's just, so if you stopped eating these

1:58:30

things today, it would probably take over

1:58:33

a year for your fat to completely remodel,

1:58:35

two plus. So it's in

1:58:37

the membranes of your cells. And what do we

1:58:40

know about oxidation in membranes that the more double

1:58:42

bonds on a fat, which is when it becomes

1:58:44

unsaturated, the more likely a fat is to become

1:58:46

oxidized. So your body has to put things in

1:58:48

membranes and use nutrients like vitamin E to protect

1:58:51

against this oxidation. And what seems

1:58:53

to happen is that over years and years

1:58:55

of eating these oils, we could potentially deplete

1:58:57

our vitamin E stores. And then the

1:58:59

fats become very susceptible to oxidation and

1:59:01

the membranes can become damaged very

1:59:03

easily. Cell membranes, mitochondrial membranes, organelles

1:59:06

within the cells. And basically,

1:59:09

I think there is compelling evidence and I strongly believe

1:59:11

that seed oils are one of the

1:59:13

major drivers of metabolic dysfunction in humans at

1:59:15

the level of mitochondria and other membranes because

1:59:17

they accumulate in our cells and it causes

1:59:20

issue. The other thing to consider

1:59:22

is historically, we would never have had this amount of

1:59:24

these oils or the components of

1:59:26

these oils. So the average

1:59:28

American eats five to six tablespoons

1:59:30

of seed oils per day. Is this, okay,

1:59:32

you know how you look at videos and

1:59:34

pictures of people back in the day and

1:59:36

they're all skinny? They're all skinny. Is that

1:59:38

because of this? I think it's a huge

1:59:40

contributor. Dang, I think it's, what has changed?

1:59:42

What has changed? Seed oil. And

1:59:45

fast food and all that. And they compare, like the

1:59:47

same things that you buy in the store, they'll

1:59:50

show you like the ingredients of that same product

1:59:52

few years ago versus now and the list has

1:59:54

doubled. So many

1:59:56

ingredients. So it's impossible to pin it exclusively

1:59:58

on seed oils. Goliath is. to say it has

2:00:00

become an issue, pesticides, right? But think

2:00:03

about it this way, in 1900, 99,

2:00:07

98% of the fat we ate was beef fat,

2:00:10

butter, and lard. Heart attacks,

2:00:12

almost unheard of. And

2:00:14

this- Diabetes is almost unheard of. Almost

2:00:16

unheard of. Alzheimer's is like the fastest growing thing.

2:00:18

And now they're calling it diabetes three or something

2:00:20

like that? Yeah, because it's an insulin resistance in

2:00:23

the brain. So diabetes is

2:00:25

insulin resistance. So again, this is just an association,

2:00:27

but it generates a hypothesis, which I think is

2:00:29

supported by the medical evidence. Where

2:00:32

is the evidence that animal fats are bad for us? You

2:00:34

know, 120 years ago, that's all we were eating, and

2:00:37

we were much healthier. And so something went

2:00:39

wrong. Seed oils are a very,

2:00:41

very likely culprit, in my opinion. They are a

2:00:43

huge different thing than we've been doing, and they're

2:00:45

in everything, right? And there's a lot of literature

2:00:47

on them. The problem is that the literature is

2:00:50

confusing, and the studies are not always well done.

2:00:53

But I think that if you just use intuition,

2:00:55

we can say, look, like these are a new

2:00:57

thing. We've never eaten them in the past. They're

2:00:59

highly oxidized, even when they come to us. Because

2:01:01

they're fragile oils to begin with, and then to

2:01:03

make the oils, they heat them, they refine them,

2:01:05

they bleach them, they have extracts

2:01:08

of hexane from benzene

2:01:11

and other things in them, heavy metals. Forever

2:01:14

chemicals, PFAs are in these oils. So basically, it's

2:01:16

like, they used to be used as engine lubricant,

2:01:18

and that's the way they should have stayed, they

2:01:20

had a strong role in World War II, because

2:01:23

they were used on ships to lubricate parts, so they

2:01:25

stay slippery when they're wet. That's crazy,

2:01:27

and then we're like, let's eat them. Yeah. Like,

2:01:30

that's just so insane. And there's interesting history about how

2:01:32

they became incorporated into the food supply, like what was

2:01:34

going on. So Procter &

2:01:36

Gamble used to make Crisco,

2:01:39

and the American Heart Association,

2:01:42

which is a huge sort

2:01:44

of contributor to the way we think about food and

2:01:46

health and heart attacks, was originated

2:01:49

in the late 1940s, and

2:01:51

really, the origin story of the American

2:01:53

Heart Association, they were failing, and

2:01:55

they got a huge grant from Procter & Gamble,

2:01:58

and Procter & Gamble makes Crisco. Similarly