4:00

And I don't know what happened to

4:02

my first copy, but I remember

4:05

exactly where I was when I bought

4:07

it. I was at the

4:09

Barnes and Noble in Federal Way. For

4:11

some reason, I got into a conversation with

4:14

one of the clerks, and I was holding

4:16

a copy of Heavier Than Heaven, thinking

4:19

about buying it. And

4:21

she told me it was by far the best

4:23

music biography she

4:27

had ever read. And so I

4:29

picked it up. I

4:31

think that the best music

4:34

biographies really put

4:36

you in the moment. And

4:39

it's a tough trick to do because

4:42

even some of the better ones don't really give

4:44

you that sense of place. And

4:48

Heavier Than Heaven does that

4:51

immaculately. It's also

4:53

a real emotional read, especially when

4:55

you get to the

4:57

end of Kurt's life. It's a

5:00

monumental book. If

5:02

you even have

5:04

a cursory interest in this podcast,

5:07

you should definitely read that book. Yeah,

5:10

and it's such a great compliment to As Your Ads

5:12

Come As You Are, which was

5:14

written when Nirvana was at the

5:16

height of their powers. And then

5:18

to have Charles Cross's book that's

5:22

retrospective. And by

5:24

someone who was

5:26

from here and was

5:29

so in the scene

5:31

and in some ways like helped make the

5:33

scene. Yeah. And in

5:35

an indirect sort of way

5:37

helped Kurt's career. I

5:40

mean, the famous anecdote about the

5:42

rocket is that Kurt placed an

5:44

ad for a drummer in

5:47

the classified ads of the rocket. So

5:50

it's another

5:52

aspect of how small

5:54

Seattle really is and

5:57

how small our music scene is and

5:59

how, everyone affects

6:01

each other. Absolutely. Like even just

6:03

being in the office today, I've

6:06

had just like one-off conversations with just

6:09

our colleagues around, you know, and everyone

6:11

mentions how important his coverage was

6:14

in the early days. And also not just

6:17

that he was doing it, cause there were

6:19

plenty of people doing it, but it was

6:21

like, it was the respect and grandeur of

6:23

it. When he's watching Mud

6:25

Honey and writing about it, like you feel like

6:27

this is the biggest band in the world. Or

6:30

in her Nevada or something that he was really

6:33

like capturing the essence and

6:35

spirit, even when it wasn't quite blowing up yet,

6:37

it was on that brink. Like he

6:41

was on the ground selling it to

6:43

you in a lot of ways. Like, guys,

6:45

this is something special is

6:47

happening. And credit to the bands

6:49

of course, but to me, it's a Testament

6:52

to like music journalism.

6:54

And like, it's hard to

6:56

imagine what Seattle music journalism would be like

6:58

without Charles R. Cross. Yeah,

7:00

you mentioned that. And I was

7:04

just thinking about how I wonder

7:09

if Charles knew the

7:12

impact that he had on

7:14

our generation of music

7:16

journalists, because Megan Seeling

7:19

from The Stranger mentioned, shout

7:22

out to friend of the pod, Megan

7:24

Seeling, by the way, Megan

7:26

mentioned that she first

7:28

started doing concert photography and music

7:31

journalism as a teenager, because she

7:33

wanted to be published in The

7:35

Rocket. And on

7:37

a personal note, I

7:39

remember sending you

7:41

a Slack message, probably

7:43

about a year ago, being like,

7:47

Charles Cross and I are Facebook

7:49

friends now. And you

7:51

saying, whoa, dude, that's sick.

7:55

So if he didn't

7:57

know, at least the world knows

7:59

now, like. Charles

8:01

inspired a literal

8:04

generation of music journalists

8:07

that are, you know, trying to

8:09

keep the art form alive. Yeah,

8:11

exactly. And it's, we

8:13

wouldn't be doing this without Charles. And I literally

8:16

like I'm flipping through heavier than

8:19

heaven every week while we're working

8:21

on this. And, and, and,

8:24

and it wasn't just, it wasn't just that he did

8:26

great stuff. He was doing great stuff. Um,

8:28

continually. I mean, he, but books

8:30

about heart and Jimi Hendrix and

8:33

he was still having by

8:35

lines in the Seattle times as as past

8:38

few weeks. Yeah. He

8:41

interviewed and powers about her, uh,

8:43

Joni Mitchell book. We were actually

8:45

both at Ann's reading

8:48

and I wanted to meet him. I

8:50

saw him and then the flashy was

8:52

gone. And after the reading, I kind

8:55

of looked around, couldn't

8:57

find him and was so bummed

8:59

that I could not introduce myself

9:01

to him and fan

9:04

boy out over the, the

9:07

monument that he

9:09

has made Seattle music

9:11

criticism. Yeah, I

9:14

never got to meet him either. I saw him speak at

9:16

the, the pop conference here in Seattle

9:18

center, not far from here a

9:20

few years ago. And I was too nervous to approach him. I

9:22

was like, nothing guy.

9:24

I can't, but he gave

9:27

like a great talk about

9:29

how Seattle

9:31

honors their legends.

9:33

And it was specifically about Kurt and

9:36

Jimi Hendrix or lack

9:38

thereof honoring and how there

9:40

is no official Kurt Cobain

9:43

memorial. Same with Jimmy, although there's

9:45

a Jimi Hendrix park. I don't remember

9:47

how that fits into all this, but you

9:49

know, how do you, how do you honor

9:52

someone with the circumstances of their

9:54

deaths and why there's

9:56

resistance there? And it feels especially poignant thinking about that now.

10:00

how we honor our community and these

10:02

artists. And I put Charles and that

10:04

Pantheon of like great

10:06

Seattle artists. Yeah, absolutely.

10:10

The Seattle scene wouldn't be

10:12

what it is today, anywhere

10:15

close. There wouldn't

10:17

be a Cobain

10:19

50 without Charles Cross.

10:24

Everything that any

10:27

Seattle music journalist is doing today

10:29

is because Charles

10:31

paved the way for us.

10:34

Absolutely. And that's been one

10:36

of the amazing things we've seen in the past few days. And

10:39

I was talking to this with our Corker

10:41

Jackson just a minute ago about the outpouring

10:43

from the community. Like you don't see that

10:45

often for a journalist or a

10:47

music journalist. It's been, everyone

10:50

has, is feeling something about this. Yeah,

10:52

he really brought the community together in

10:54

a way that music

10:56

journalism has not been able

10:58

to do since the

11:00

heyday of the rocket. I mean, no fault

11:04

to any of us doing

11:06

it now, but I think

11:08

that the outpouring of

11:11

support from Charles really

11:14

emphasizes how

11:16

important music journalism was. And

11:19

I know that there are a lot of

11:21

us that would like to get

11:23

that feeling back. But

11:26

whether it comes back or not, it's

11:29

important to honor Charles

11:32

because of all

11:34

of the hard work that he's done, whether

11:36

it's writing, editing,

11:38

publishing books, as

11:41

far as what

11:43

can be done in the field of music

11:46

journalism. Charles has done

11:48

it all, and he's done it all at

11:50

a very high level. And

11:52

his loss to our

11:54

community is incalculable. Charles's

11:59

work at the University of Michigan, as an

12:01

editor of The Rocket

12:03

really galvanized young writers that

12:08

worked for him. I mean, you

12:11

can see it in their work as well,

12:13

that their writing is

12:15

a little more inspired and

12:17

energized. One thing

12:19

that brings up for me too, that I would want

12:21

to quickly plug her ahead is that, you

12:24

know, one way to honor Charles, I

12:26

mean, one, go read his work, it's fantastic, but

12:29

support your local alt weekly, support your

12:31

local paper, your local zine, like that's,

12:34

The Rocket is an institution. I've always bummed

12:36

because I kind of missed that era. I

12:38

was too late for it. The archives are

12:40

now up within the past year or so,

12:43

the full archive online, which is

12:45

worth going back to. Extremely worth

12:47

going back to. Yeah,

12:51

when it first popped up, I spent hours

12:55

reading through old issues. I

12:58

assure you that it would be well

13:00

worth your time. Yeah, exactly. It's a

13:02

really great time suck in the best

13:04

way. And, you know,

13:06

the next Charles, our cross is out there,

13:08

you know, like there are new generations of

13:10

writers, there are new bands, new scenes, not

13:13

just in Seattle, wherever you're at. And

13:17

we are, if I'm getting on my soapbox

13:19

for briefly, like we're at a moment where

13:21

we could really lose this stuff where

13:25

media is undergoing a huge change.

13:27

You see layoffs at papers all

13:30

the time or shuttering of institutions. And

13:34

it's important that we

13:36

as readers, as fans and lovers of music,

13:38

we give back to that. We

13:43

support that and we're

13:45

paying attention. And because it's not about me

13:47

and Martin, but it's about this

13:50

beautiful ecosystem or scene

13:52

of music that

13:54

can change my life if I'm being

13:56

like corny about it. It changed a lot of

13:59

lives. about us, but

14:01

it's also about everyone else

14:03

too. It's important to

14:06

have an engagement with

14:08

local music. And

14:10

that starts with reading about

14:12

what's happening in your community.

14:16

My advice is don't let the

14:18

venture capitalists buy

14:20

us all out and then make

14:22

us become puppets. Let us

14:24

have our own vision by supporting

14:26

the work of your

14:29

favorite local music journalist,

14:31

your favorite local music

14:34

publication. Because there

14:36

are a lot of them, they're out there. You

14:39

might have to dig a little deeper for them

14:41

than generations past, but

14:44

trust me, they're out there and they're doing good work.

14:52

So Charles was interviewed multiple times for KXP,

14:54

particularly on our show Sound and Vision hosted

14:56

by Emily Fox. And Martin and I will

14:59

be back at the end to share your

15:01

stories. For now, here's a clip

15:03

of Charles talking about Nirvana's famous

15:06

show at the Paramount Theater in 1991. In

15:09

fact, on Halloween, there's a great, excellent

15:11

concert film of this that you'll

15:14

have to check out. Here's Charles talking about

15:16

that show and how it made the band basically

15:18

famous overnight. It

15:24

was amazingly significant because it essentially

15:26

was the moment. And by moment,

15:28

I mean like this

15:30

was ours. There was a point where

15:33

Nirvana were a big

15:35

local band and then there was a point where

15:37

they were national stars. And then there was a

15:39

later point when they were international stars. But

15:42

essentially they become famous

15:45

within hours of October 31,

15:48

1991. It was happening

15:50

in those moments. Now, you on

15:52

your radio show and in Seattle,

15:55

they had had some level of

15:57

fame for maybe a month

15:59

or two. Smells Like Teen

16:01

Spirit comes out in August, it gets

16:03

played on the radio, people in Seattle

16:05

are starting to request it in September,

16:07

but even the idea

16:10

that they were gonna be stars,

16:12

nobody quite was aware of,

16:14

even in mid-October, the record

16:16

had not sold that many at that point. They

16:19

didn't make that many. They only printed 43,000. People

16:22

often go, well, did you know Nirvana were

16:24

gonna be huge? No. No

16:27

one did. No one did. If they did, they would have

16:29

made more than 43,000. It just

16:31

makes no sense. But

16:33

back to that October 31, 1991

16:36

show, I had a free press ticket,

16:38

my best friend Carl did not. We

16:41

bought him a ticket outside for $20. This

16:44

show was sold out, but it was not

16:46

a tough ticket to get. So

16:49

back to the whole how big Nirvana were in

16:51

Seattle and how big they were gonna come, the

16:53

idea that you could buy a ticket to them

16:56

at the Paramount on Halloween in 1991 in Seattle

16:59

for $20 outside shows

17:01

you proof that their success was

17:04

still on the horizon. They

17:08

don't play Seattle after that until when they

17:10

played right around the corner from where we

17:13

are, when they play in the summer of

17:15

92 after things are crazy. And

17:19

at that show, they sell out in 16,000 venue

17:24

and you could not get in for anything. No amount

17:26

of money would have gotten you into that 92 show.

17:31

91, you could waltz right in. But

17:35

the Paramount show is historic. This

17:37

is Nirvana at the moment they

17:39

become famous in their hometown on

17:42

Halloween, on stage at the Paramount.

17:44

They were a revolutionary band. They

17:47

weren't, they didn't stay within the

17:49

realm of just pop music here today with

17:52

a hit and another hit in another year.

17:55

What they created that night and on

17:57

that album has greatly influenced all the

17:59

music and that has come ever since.

18:01

We had no idea, none of us, not you,

18:04

me, not Curtin, how important

18:06

that night was. I

18:12

love Charles's voice. Charles

18:15

should be the host of our podcast, more

18:17

so than even getting him as a guest, just

18:19

being like, hey Charles, you want my salary for

18:21

a year? Can you, you

18:23

want to host this? Tag him in.

18:25

I love his perspective on that. That's

18:27

always like whenever you

18:29

play that game with your friends, like what show would you go

18:32

back in time for? Nirvana,

18:34

Halloween 91 is always the one I

18:36

go to. And it's crazy

18:39

to have the context of like, Nirvana

18:41

was only kind of big at that point. But

18:45

you could buy a ticket outside

18:47

of the Paramount for $20. Yeah,

18:50

that's incredible. But

18:54

yeah, we're talking about Nirvana. And you

18:56

know, Charles was an

18:58

expert on way more

19:01

than just Nirvana. I

19:03

mean, he wrote Heavier Than Heaven, The

19:05

Kurt Biography. But he

19:07

also wrote biographies on

19:09

Jimi Hendrix and Heart.

19:12

And here Charles is

19:14

again, talking about those artists,

19:16

Hendrix, Heart, and also

19:18

Soundgarden. If

19:24

you go to any sports event or any big

19:26

thing, they're going to play Purple Haze. It

19:29

is the theme song to Seattle. The

19:32

only thing that even halfway comes close

19:34

is most like Teen Spirit. But Purple

19:36

Haze before Teen Spirit. It

19:40

is Seattle's song. He is Seattle's guy.

19:43

In some ways, he proved that

19:45

we could create a legend. We

19:48

could create genius. For

19:50

whatever reason, the combination of

19:52

the water, the

19:54

growing up in the project

19:57

near Harborview, going to

19:59

Garfield, being around kids that were

20:01

Asian and Native American and whites

20:03

and blacks and seeing the

20:06

amalgamation of music that was happening particularly

20:08

in the Central District at that point.

20:11

You know, they called it the Jackson Street

20:13

scene. Jimmy saw those clubs. He saw those

20:15

players. He got the idea that

20:17

blues and rock could be mixed in

20:19

a genre. He got the idea that black and

20:22

white people could be in a club together having

20:24

a good time. He claimed he

20:26

did not see music with race

20:29

and that he didn't define himself for

20:31

playing for a white or a black

20:33

audience. He struggled with that. Black

20:35

radio did not play him. He

20:38

wanted to be accepted in that community

20:40

and had a hard time with it.

20:43

But that I think is his artistic genius

20:46

is that he did also not define himself

20:48

by race. Jimi

20:51

Hendrix, Seattle's greatest, we can just put

20:53

a period on that. We don't need

20:55

to qualify it or say anything else.

20:58

Two words, Seattle's greatest. They

21:07

didn't do it to be role models. They

21:10

did it because they always believed in themselves.

21:12

And in fact, they didn't, if they would

21:14

have known how impossible it was, they wouldn't

21:16

have done it. The barriers that

21:18

they went through and the crap they put up

21:20

with being women and rock, they

21:23

did it because they believed in themselves and

21:25

because they imagined this

21:28

world that they

21:30

were the Beatles. They

21:32

went and saw the Beatles at just

21:34

50 yards from where we're sitting, talking

21:36

now at the Seattle Center Coliseum. They

21:39

dressed up like the Beatles prior to

21:41

seeing them. They had these costumes made

21:43

that their mom had sewn where they

21:46

look like the Beatles and

21:48

they had seen pictures earlier in the tour. So

21:50

they went to the show wearing exactly the same

21:52

costumes they thought the Beatles would have on stage.

21:55

But the Beatles had two costumes and they went

21:57

to the wrong show. They

22:00

got the costume from the next show, not the show

22:02

they went to. But

22:05

it's really, that is the

22:07

moment, I think, when Anne and

22:10

Nancy both thought that they

22:13

didn't go to idolize the Beatles, they

22:15

thought they were the Beatles. Not

22:17

that they were as big as Beatles or as

22:19

important of the Beatles, but they thought of themselves

22:22

with something to say. And

22:24

that is what is inherent in

22:26

heart and why these women are important in

22:29

the history of rock and roll. The fact

22:31

that they believe that, when it really was

22:33

impossible, is one of the

22:35

reasons that they're a great band. But it's

22:38

also this music on this album and how

22:40

much this lasts, you know, 40 years after

22:42

it was done. This is still a wonderful

22:44

record to put in your car. You're going

22:46

to speed if Magic Man comes on your

22:48

car. There is no doubt about that. And

22:51

if Crazy On You comes on and you're

22:53

on an open highway, you're going to be

22:55

20 miles hour over the speed limit.

23:14

They were the first northwest of the grunge

23:16

here, if we want to call it that,

23:18

to have a recording deal. And

23:20

they had a few records out before

23:22

anything else broke. Yeah, this was what,

23:25

their fourth studio album? And what's crazy

23:27

is that Soundgarden is the first northwest

23:30

grunge band to really form. Maybe

23:32

they invented the genre, it could be argued.

23:35

I mean, they kind of invented that drop

23:37

detuning thing. They did. And there are three

23:39

major songs on this record with drop detuning,

23:41

which is what Nirvana later do. That's

23:45

Black Hole Sun, Spoon

23:47

Man, and Let

23:49

Me Down. Those

23:53

are all drop detuning. And

23:55

that sound is really what the northwest sound is.

23:58

Of course they recorded with Jack and in Dino

24:00

early on, and that's

24:02

in Dino's signature move. Let's try

24:04

the song and drop detuning, which

24:07

gives that darker, more

24:10

thudding, ominous, dark

24:13

clouds. I mean, when I think

24:15

of the word grunge, I think

24:17

drop detuning. Absolutely. That feels like

24:19

grunge to me. Absolutely. I

24:30

mean, Soundgarden is an interesting band,

24:32

and because their influences are more

24:34

punk and early on, and

24:36

then more metal. So they'd released a couple

24:38

albums that were definitely in the heavy metal

24:41

section of a record store, when this record

24:43

does not end up in the heavy metal

24:45

record store. This record moves them to the

24:47

front of the store. But let's set the

24:50

stage for when this record comes out so

24:52

people can remember this. This is creepy to

24:54

think about. Super Unknown was

24:56

released on March 8, 1994, exactly

25:01

a month later, on April

25:04

8, 1994, Kurt

25:06

Cobain's body is discovered. He had died

25:08

three days before. So

25:11

in a very creepy way, in a way, the

25:14

guys in the band literally

25:16

gave me this as a quote. They felt

25:19

weird about it, because they had just released

25:21

this record. Nobody knew Kurt was going to

25:23

die a month later. But

25:25

they had the fortune, commercially,

25:28

to have a record that had just

25:31

come out that was a

25:33

Seattle record. And consequently,

25:37

Kurt's death helped

25:39

certainly sell in utero and helped sell

25:41

a ton of MTV Unplugged when that

25:43

record finally came out. But it also

25:45

brought attention to Soundgarden. And they felt

25:48

weird about that. They felt, in

25:50

some ways, that's interesting. I've never heard

25:52

anybody say that his death brought more

25:54

attention to the music that

25:56

was coming out of this scene. Oh, absolutely. Now

25:58

that I think about it. about it. It makes

26:01

sense. The press, the amount of

26:03

press. I sat down with the guys

26:05

in sound garden in December of that

26:07

year. And at that point, super unknowns

26:09

the biggest selling record in 1994. It

26:13

outsells any, it outsells Pearl Jam. It

26:16

outsells Nirvana in 1994. I

26:18

mean, and it was a monster record,

26:20

but they felt weird about it. They

26:22

felt like that something was sort of

26:24

wrong about it. And here's a

26:26

quote that Chris gave to me that I wrote down.

26:29

And he felt that that time

26:32

bizarrely, which is really interesting to think

26:34

he felt that they were not the

26:37

big band in the area. So his

26:39

quote was, it seems to me like

26:41

we're probably a lot lower on

26:43

the list of international perception of what

26:46

this area Seattle means in terms of

26:48

music, even though we've probably been

26:50

more involved than most of the other bands in

26:52

the history of this area musically. That

26:55

was Charles R. Cross speaking on KXP sound and

26:57

vision over the years. As

27:03

promise, before we go, we wanted

27:06

to read some stories that KXP

27:08

listeners shared when the

27:10

news of Charles's death broke. Earlier

27:14

this week, a lot of you

27:16

wrote stories to our live DJs

27:18

to pay homage to Charles. So

27:21

here are just three of those stories. One

27:23

listener wrote, big fan of Charles

27:26

during COVID. He created a mini record club

27:28

and anyone could sign up. He

27:31

sent me nearly 20 CDs that he made

27:33

all with a little personal note from him,

27:35

all different genres. He lifted

27:37

my spirits during that time. Charles

27:40

was a generous, unique, brilliant guy,

27:42

the great sense of humor, a

27:44

little sharp on the outside, but a teddy bear on

27:47

the inside. No shortage

27:49

of opinions. And I admired and respected him

27:51

for that. From my

27:53

perspective, he kept our city's culture alive. And

27:55

I hope we can follow in his footsteps.

27:58

Dale writes. Charlie was

28:00

my first roommate when I moved out of

28:03

my parents house as a freshman at the

28:05

UW in early 1975 shortly before I turned

28:07

19. I remember first meeting

28:12

him at our dorm room. He

28:14

was there with his friend Greg and

28:16

both had long hair and scruffy

28:19

faces. There was an upside-down American

28:21

flag on the wall, a smoldering

28:24

roach in the ashtray, and

28:27

Bob Dylan's desire spinning on the

28:29

turntable. I had

28:31

recently been voted the biggest nerd in my

28:33

high school the past two years in a

28:35

row, back when being

28:37

a nerd wasn't remotely cool. I

28:40

thought I had made a good first impression, but

28:43

when I left to go get the last box

28:45

from the car I heard laughter through the door

28:48

and Greg saying, oh my god

28:50

Charlie what are you going to do? I won

28:53

them over through the next few months

28:55

however by quickly adopting their lifestyle and

28:57

growing my hair along. The

29:00

next school quarter Charlie moved into an

29:02

apartment and the quarter after that

29:05

I took it over when he moved in with

29:07

his girlfriend. It was my

29:09

first apartment above a greasy

29:11

spoon on the UW Ave called

29:13

the Hasty Tasty. We

29:15

went to New York City together and

29:17

saw jazz concerts and had adventures there.

29:20

I can honestly say he was the first person

29:23

that I was blessed to have met as an

29:25

adult among many others after

29:28

who had a tremendous influence on my

29:30

life and who literally helped shape the

29:32

person I am today. Over

29:35

the years we drifted apart but I never

29:37

lost my fondness for him and

29:40

he as well for me I am certain. About

29:43

a year ago we started communicating on social

29:45

sites and we agreed we should meet up.

29:48

It didn't happen and I really wish I had

29:50

followed up on that. I

29:52

will miss him. Got

29:55

one more here. Crane

29:57

writes on April

29:59

25th On March 1, 2016, my

30:02

daughter and I went to Charles' house in Shoreline. We

30:05

were all going to the sold out Courtney Barnett show

30:07

at the Moore Theatre. My

30:09

teen daughter was getting into photography, and

30:11

Charles was letting her use his press photo pass to

30:13

shoot the show from the press pool at the venue.

30:17

When we got to Charles' house, he was delayed

30:19

due to all the incoming phone calls. Prince

30:22

had just died. Charles

30:24

was fielding calls from Courtney Love, Ann Wilson,

30:27

and others. At

30:29

the time, the cause of Prince's death was unknown,

30:32

and rumors of drug overdose were rampant. Charles

30:35

and others in the industry were trying to figure

30:37

out what had happened. This

30:40

was quite a memorable music-infused night, and

30:42

was fascinating to see how intertwined the music

30:44

community truly is. My

30:47

last interaction with Mr. Cross was several days

30:49

ago. Such a huge

30:51

loss to the Pacific Northwest music community. I

30:54

feel especially bad for his son, Ashlyn. I

30:57

plan to reach out to see if he needs another

30:59

source for bad dad jokes. Wow,

31:04

yeah, going

31:06

over these letters and people

31:09

whose lives were blessed by

31:11

Charles, yeah, it's

31:14

a really emotional experience. Yeah,

31:17

I should say, our hearts go out

31:19

to his family, his friends. Not

31:23

knowing him personally, I can't imagine what

31:26

they're all going through, and the

31:28

community at large, and everyone out

31:30

there can take

31:33

a moment to

31:35

breathe and find peace in all this as

31:38

we are also honoring Charles. Thank

31:51

you all for being here with us today,

31:53

and just feeling all this with us. It

31:56

feels good to be able to talk about Charles'

31:58

legacy. Huge thanks

32:00

to Emily Fox for sharing clips of Charles R.

32:02

Cross on KEXP. You can hear

32:04

more in-depth conversations like this on Sound and

32:07

Vision every Saturday morning at 730 Pacific on

32:09

KEXP and also on our Deeper Listen

32:11

podcast. Also

32:15

a big thanks to our colleagues, Owen

32:17

Murphy and Mira Powell for sharing listeners'

32:19

stories from the morning show and midday

32:21

show on KEXP. This

32:24

bonus episode was produced and mixed by

32:26

Roddy Nickpour. Our podcast

32:28

manager is Isabel Kalili and

32:31

Larry Meisel Jr. is our director of

32:33

editorial. And

32:35

I'm Martin Douglas. And I'm Dusty Henry.

32:38

Thanks for joining us for this special edition

32:40

of the Co-Bane 50 from listener-powered KEXP, where

32:43

the music matters.