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12:01

Jay and Marilyn hop in Marilyn's truck

12:03

this time. Jay's in the passenger seat

12:05

giving her directions because he knows this

12:07

area better. And they're only about

12:10

three miles from her mom and Jay's house

12:12

when Marilyn sees a cop car on the side

12:14

of the road that stands out like a

12:16

beacon. It's sitting sort of at

12:18

the bottom of a driveway with a farm

12:20

gate at the end. So she and Jay

12:22

pull right up behind the car. And right

12:24

away, the officer gets out and comes to

12:26

the window and Marilyn tells him, my mom

12:28

has been reported missing. We just heard that

12:30

someone found a burnt car somewhere

12:32

around here. But the officer

12:35

won't tell them anything. Like, I mean,

12:37

absolutely nothing. He just keeps saying like,

12:39

you need to go home. You need

12:41

to wait. You're gonna get a call

12:43

as soon as officials know something, anything,

12:45

whatever. I'm sorry. No, that

12:48

I'm not going anywhere. You and Marilyn both, same

12:50

for me, which is why she says exactly that.

12:52

She's like, I'm not going anywhere. And she just

12:54

keeps asking the guy over and over like, did

12:57

you find the car here? Is it my mom's

12:59

car? Are we at the right place? And

13:02

she's just getting more and more frustrated because

13:04

the officer isn't telling her anything besides go

13:06

home and wait. But finally,

13:08

I mean, she is persistent enough that he

13:10

breaks. He says, okay, listen, yes, there is

13:13

a burned car. We are looking into it,

13:15

but I really don't know anything else. I

13:17

don't know if there's even anyone in the

13:19

car. I don't know whose car it is.

13:22

I'm just here trying to keep the scene safe. So

13:24

like, I do need you to go. So

13:27

there's nothing that they can see from the

13:29

road? No, not from where they're parked. So

13:31

like I said, this was like a long

13:33

driveway and it seems like officials have everything

13:35

blocked off. It's also like 6 p.m.

13:37

at this point, mid October. So they're

13:40

quickly running out of daylight. And

13:42

at this point, Marilyn realizes she's not gonna get

13:44

any more information from this guy. And there really

13:47

is nothing else they can do but go home

13:49

and wait. But it is a short

13:51

wait because about 15 minutes after they

13:53

get home, they get the knock on the

13:55

door that changes their whole life. It

13:58

is investigators coming to tell. them that

14:00

they think the burned out car that

14:02

they found a few miles away was

14:04

Mary's Chevy Lumina. And they're pretty

14:07

sure that there are remains in the

14:09

backseat, though they can't confirm yet that

14:11

they're hers because of all the damage

14:13

from the fire. And listen,

14:15

there's almost nothing left of the

14:18

car. According to that piece by

14:20

David Bloom and the Baytown Sun,

14:22

anything that could melt, melt it.

14:25

I'm talking the engine interior, the

14:27

glass wiring tires, all of

14:29

it is gone. Even the trees in the

14:31

area were burned. So they're working with what's

14:33

left, which at this point isn't much. It

14:36

sounds like more than just a car

14:38

accident where the engine caught fire. It

14:40

feels like arson. Oh, yeah, I

14:42

don't think this is something that just like happens accidentally.

14:45

And this isn't like an electric vehicle. Like I've

14:47

seen those like go up in a blaze that

14:49

can't even be put out. That's not what this

14:52

is. So how did no one

14:54

see it earlier then? Well, so that's

14:56

the thing. And the frustrating

14:58

thing because someone did see it someone

15:00

not only saw it, but reported it.

15:02

And according to coverage in the Houston

15:05

Chronicle, the local fire department got a

15:07

report around 1020 that morning

15:09

of smoke in the area. But

15:12

for some reason, they just figured that

15:14

someone was burning leaves or garbage, something

15:16

like that. So they just didn't bother

15:18

to respond. I didn't

15:20

realize responding to fires was

15:22

optional. Me neither.

15:25

Like this isn't a super remote area

15:27

or anything either. Like the car itself

15:30

was pretty well hidden. It was found

15:32

along a pipeline ditch behind that farm

15:34

gate and some pretty like thick trees.

15:36

But I mean, you have to go through

15:39

a whole subdivision to get to it. And

15:41

there are homes all around. So like for

15:43

me, all the more reason to respond. And

15:45

when I say a pipeline ditch, like I'm

15:47

pretty sure it's like natural gas and stuff.

15:49

So again, I don't know whose idea

15:51

was like, let's just see how it goes. And then

15:53

if it like takes everything down, then we'll come out

15:55

like, it doesn't make sense to me. But

15:58

anyways, it's not until later that that

16:00

officials are able to confirm that the car

16:02

is in fact Mary's. And it's a couple

16:05

of days after that, before Marilyn gets a

16:07

call saying that they were able to identify

16:09

the remains in the car as her mother's.

16:12

But because of the condition of her

16:15

body, investigators weren't able to determine an

16:17

actual cause of death. They basically had

16:19

to match tooth fragments to dental records

16:22

just to identify this as Mary. But

16:24

they knew enough to know that they

16:27

were dealing with a homicide, obviously. And

16:30

I assume there's no physical evidence to work with. Correct.

16:33

Like the fire had destroyed pretty

16:35

much everything, which is exactly what

16:38

officers think her killer intended. But

16:41

why Mary was targeted in the

16:43

first place becomes a huge mystery.

16:46

And as detectives start investigating, they

16:48

find out that Mary was this

16:50

kind, devoted mom and grandmother. She'd

16:52

been happily married. She and Jay

16:54

had just built this new house.

16:57

They built it just outside of

16:59

Houston in this suburb called Baytown.

17:01

She loved horses. She loved trail

17:03

riding, tending to her garden. I

17:05

mean, Marilyn told Unsolved Mysteries back

17:08

in 2002, quote, she

17:11

was just a really good person, you know,

17:13

never did anything bad to anybody. They

17:15

asked everything from gambling to drugs to

17:18

affairs to anything. And all the

17:20

answers were no, she didn't gamble. She didn't

17:22

drink nothing. End

17:24

quote. And even though investigators

17:26

talk to Mary's family and her friends

17:28

and her coworkers, everyone they

17:30

can think of, they cannot find a

17:32

single person who didn't even not only

17:34

have like her as an enemy, like

17:36

they can't find a single person who

17:38

didn't like her. Did

17:41

she stop somewhere on her way to

17:43

work where she could have been like

17:45

carjacked or robbed or something? Well,

17:47

I mean, based on the route that Jay said she

17:49

took when she left the house, he thought she may

17:51

have been heading to a nearby gas station maybe to

17:53

fill up her car first, which

17:56

I mean, that's not unusual for Mary or for

17:58

anyone. And I know in best. to get her

18:00

to go and talk to a cashier there, you

18:02

know, thinking maybe someone saw her. And

18:04

I think the person thought they maybe saw

18:07

someone who looked like Mary that morning, but

18:09

they were never able to confirm or find

18:11

evidence of her actually being there. And I

18:14

know the store had cameras, but according to

18:16

the Houston Chronicle, the footage was destroyed before

18:18

officials had the chance to see it. I

18:20

mean, we know that stuff only lasts like

18:22

24 hours or whatever. And they

18:24

did check, I know her credit cards, all

18:26

that stuff to see if they could confirm

18:29

she bought gas, whatever. There's no charges there

18:31

either. And I think they're looking

18:33

at the charges like based on her

18:35

bank records, because I don't think they actually

18:37

find her cards. Because one

18:39

of the things I know is that

18:41

they say that Mary's purse and her

18:43

wedding ring are actually both missing from

18:46

the vehicle or whatever. So

18:48

they're kind of wondering if maybe robbery

18:50

was the motive here. But

18:52

didn't you say the fire like

18:54

melted the car glass and everything?

18:57

Why are they suspicious that they can't find a purse?

19:00

Okay, so I don't know. Like, I'm

19:03

assuming they're looking for not the purse itself, but

19:05

any remains of like zippers, bubbles,

19:07

whatever. Yeah. And I get

19:10

confused too, because right there like, hey, the

19:12

glass melted, the tires melted, but I know

19:14

that they found other pieces of Mary's jewelry,

19:16

like other stuff she was wearing that day.

19:18

I know they found a watch, some

19:21

necklaces, other rings, but also on the

19:23

same like hand, if her

19:25

other jewelry is there, now

19:27

robbery doesn't look like the motive.

19:29

Because why wouldn't you take everything?

19:31

Right. And not to mention like

19:33

the crime feels too brutal to

19:36

just be some random robbery. Like,

19:38

and this didn't feel random. Investigators

19:40

think that whoever killed Mary set

19:42

out to kill her. And

19:45

the important thing to note is that there is

19:47

some time missing in this timeline, right? Like we

19:49

know she left the house for work at 6am.

19:52

And then investigators don't think that the

19:54

fire started until sometime around 10 based

19:57

on that report that came in. So the big

20:00

question becomes, what happened

20:02

and where was Mary between 6am

20:04

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21:03

first month. That's betterhelphelp.com/CrimeJunkie. According

21:27

to that Baytown Sun article, Marilyn doesn't have

21:29

any answers by the time she buries her

21:46

mom's remains, 19 pounds

21:49

of ashes and bone fragments

21:51

on October 16th. Now

21:53

when they release her mother's remains for burial,

21:55

they'd forgotten to give her the jewelry that

21:57

her mom still had afternoon

22:00

after the funeral, Marilyn calls the medical

22:02

examiner's office to check about getting her

22:04

stuff back. And the

22:06

person on the other end just says, oh,

22:09

you can pick up the jewelry when you come

22:11

pick up the body. And

22:13

Marilyn's like, no, no, no, no,

22:16

you're not understanding. Like I just buried

22:18

my mom. Like that part is done. I just

22:20

need to come get her jewelry. But

22:22

the Emmy's office fights her on this.

22:24

They're like, no, like in no uncertain

22:26

terms, like we have Mary

22:28

Morris's body. Like in our morgue

22:30

right now. Well then who did

22:33

she bury? Well that's

22:35

exactly what Marilyn is asking herself. And

22:37

it takes some time. Like a few different people

22:39

have to get on the phone. But

22:42

eventually they figure out that the

22:44

Emmy does indeed have Mary Morris's

22:46

body in the morgue. What?

22:49

A royal f*** up? Oh, no, no, no,

22:52

no, no. They didn't mess up.

22:54

What? Everyone is right. Marilyn

22:57

just buried Mary Morris. Right. And

23:00

the Emmy has Mary Morris still in

23:02

the morgue. They have a

23:04

different. A different Mary Morris.

23:07

Yes. Also from Harris

23:10

County also found dead

23:12

in her car. Just

23:14

recently? Really recently. Like

23:17

this second Mary, 39 year old Mary

23:19

McGinnis Morris had been found dead in

23:21

her company car the same morning of

23:23

the first Mary's funeral. I mean, same

23:26

thing or is this the strangest coincidence

23:28

of all time? I don't know. I

23:31

still don't know if I have the answers to

23:33

that even after like looking at this whole story

23:36

or at least I don't have the answers

23:38

to that second question. I do know that

23:40

this Mary's car wasn't set on fire like

23:42

the first one. This Mary,

23:44

Mary McGinnis Morris, she died from

23:46

one gunshot wound to the head.

23:49

According to the Houston Chronicle, the bullet came

23:51

from a gun that was registered to her

23:54

husband Mike and the gun was actually in

23:56

the car with her. So at first investigators

23:58

thought that maybe they were dead. dealing with

24:00

a suicide. But I

24:02

mean, that was quickly ruled out. So she

24:04

had ripped clothes, she had signs of a

24:07

beating, scratches, I mean, she'd been gagged. So

24:09

they know that this is something else entirely, almost

24:11

right off the bat. Now in

24:14

her case, the passenger side door

24:16

was also found open and detectives

24:18

found blood on it and her

24:20

keys were outside of the car.

24:23

Now it didn't look like anything was

24:25

missing. So they ruled out robbery as

24:28

a motive. Where was her car? So

24:31

unlike the first Mary Morris, whose car was

24:33

hidden away in that area with

24:35

trees, like away from the main roads, Mary

24:37

McGinnis Morris, her car was actually found on

24:40

a little road not far from the drug

24:42

store that she was last seen at. But

24:45

what's interesting is like the crime

24:48

scenes are close enough together that

24:50

they are both investigated by the

24:52

Harris County Sheriff's Office. And listen,

24:54

I say close enough, but this

24:56

is still a huge area of

24:58

Houston. So they each have their

25:00

own detectives working their case. I

25:02

mean, I'm sure they're comparing notes as they go. I

25:04

mean, you have to be. Yeah, now

25:07

in the second Mary's case, investigators start talking

25:09

to the people who knew her, like her

25:11

husband, her friends, her coworkers, just like they

25:13

did in the other. And they

25:15

start to put together a picture of who

25:17

she was and a timeline of the days

25:19

and weeks leading up to her murder. And

25:22

just like in the first investigation, everyone

25:25

they talked to says that this Mary

25:27

was also a happy, joyful person with

25:29

a successful career as the medical director

25:31

of several private clinics. They say she

25:33

was great at her job, she worked

25:36

super hard. And in an interview for

25:38

Unsolved Mysteries, Mary's sister Stephanie says that

25:40

she would work a 14 hour day

25:42

and then like not even think twice

25:44

about going back in the evenings or

25:47

on weekends if she was needed. And

25:49

just like the last time, I mean,

25:51

she got along with pretty much everybody

25:53

at work. Pretty much everyone

25:56

except. Yeah, so

25:58

there was one person, this one. guy

26:00

that had recently started working in one

26:02

of their clinics as a nurse. And

26:05

listen, the media coverage on this case, I mean,

26:07

even including statements from investigators about like

26:10

why there was this supposed friction between

26:12

Mary and this guy, it's pretty vague.

26:14

They say things like he was trying

26:16

to discredit her, like wreck her career.

26:18

And the Houston Chronicle story says that

26:20

he had gone to her supervisors to

26:22

complain about her and questioned her authority

26:25

a lot. And he was just like,

26:27

agitated, like all the time. And it had

26:30

been like that from day one, but things

26:32

had just kind of gotten worse and worse

26:34

and worse over time. But

26:36

interestingly, the prosecutors podcast did a

26:38

deep dive on this case for

26:40

their episode from December of 2020.

26:43

And they actually talked to this guy

26:45

as part of their research process. And

26:48

I guess he told them that actually

26:50

he and Mary had been friends, at

26:52

least at one point. And he said

26:54

the real issue between them, again, according

26:57

to him, was that he

26:59

had found out that Mary had been falsifying

27:01

records at work, like recording treatments that she

27:03

hadn't actually given. So like that kind of

27:05

thing. And he says that he had reported

27:08

it to one of the supervisors at the

27:10

clinic. So like that's his version of events.

27:13

So like insurance fraud? I don't

27:15

even think it was anything

27:17

that nefarious. I think it was

27:19

more like times where she would be helping out colleagues

27:21

and friends. And actually, on the day

27:24

she was murdered, she had met her

27:26

friend Lori at the office to give

27:28

her like either a flu shot or some

27:30

kind of allergy shot or something. The

27:32

source material is a little inconsistent on

27:34

exactly what. But either way, it would

27:36

have been okay, except that according to the

27:38

prosecutor's podcast, the medical clinic that Mary

27:40

ran was a private clinic for employees

27:42

of this one particular company. So it wasn't

27:44

like an open access clinic to anyone

27:46

off the street. Now Lori

27:49

had been an employee at one time,

27:51

but she wasn't anymore at this point.

27:53

So Mary should not have been treating

27:55

her at all. And that's the kind

27:57

of stuff it seems like she was

28:00

he had reported her for. So like nothing that's

28:02

gonna get her into trouble with investigators or even

28:04

like, or like the nursing board probably would have

28:06

had something to say about it. But more than

28:08

anything, it's just like her employers. Like you can't

28:10

be like giving away our flu shots for people

28:12

that don't work here. Like there's like liability issues,

28:14

whatever. Either way, what we

28:16

know is that something between him and

28:18

Mary had definitely shifted to the point

28:20

where she was actually afraid of this

28:22

guy and was legit scared that he

28:24

might hurt her. And the week

28:27

before her death, it had all come to

28:29

a head. Shortly before

28:31

she was killed, Mary had popped into

28:33

her office one night after hours to

28:35

just like grab some papers. And when

28:37

she got there, she noticed things were

28:39

kind of out of place on her

28:41

desk, like pictures were facing the wrong

28:43

way. Someone had been in there is

28:46

like what she thought, which was kind

28:48

of unsettling. But it's not until she

28:50

walks past this guy's desk that she

28:52

sees something that makes her blood run

28:54

cold. Mary sees the

28:56

words, death to her,

28:59

written on a calendar right there

29:01

on his desk. Death

29:03

to who? Who's her? She

29:06

took it to mean her as in Mary. And

29:09

she apparently was really shaken up by

29:11

this whole thing, enough that she reported

29:13

it up the chain to her bosses.

29:15

And they had told her, listen, stay

29:17

home the next day, like let everything

29:19

cool down a bit. And according to

29:21

that Unsolved Mysteries episode, the guy ends

29:23

up quitting his job anyway. But the

29:25

Houston Chronicle, which I mean, straight up

29:27

names this dude, says that at some

29:29

point he comes back to the office

29:31

to make sure that his time card

29:33

was signed. And he ends up making

29:35

like a full on scene. Like Mary's

29:37

friend, Lori says that he was like

29:39

hitting windows, asking for Mary. And ultimately

29:41

he had to be escorted out of

29:43

there. So like unhinged behavior. Yeah, basically.

29:45

So it was bad enough with this

29:47

guy. Mary was scared enough that that's

29:49

why she started carrying a gun, the

29:51

gun that was registered to her husband.

29:53

And that's the one that was found

29:55

at the scene. Yeah,

29:58

her husband Mike says that she... She had asked

30:00

him to walk her through how to use it,

30:02

and then she had him put it under the

30:04

driver's seat of her car so she would always

30:06

have it. And where was it found in the

30:09

car by investigators? So I don't

30:11

know exactly where it was found,

30:13

but according to Romakana's reporting for

30:15

the Houston Chronicle, it said, quote,

30:17

"... its placement could indicate it

30:19

was a suicide." End quote.

30:22

So within arms reach of her?

30:25

Right. But I don't know if that means,

30:27

like, still under the seat and you could

30:29

reach it, or if it's like next to

30:32

her or whatever. Right. Anyways, fast forward to

30:34

October 15th. This is a

30:36

Sunday. Mary is out running errands.

30:38

She meets up with her friend Lori at

30:40

the medical clinic, like I mentioned. Then

30:43

she heads to run some errands, with the last

30:45

stop being this drug store. While

30:47

she's at the drug store, she calls Lori

30:50

and she says there is someone there who

30:52

was making her super uncomfortable. And

30:55

according to Rhea Davis' story in the

30:57

Chronicle, what she actually said was, there's

30:59

someone here who's giving me the creeps.

31:02

Like is this a stranger

31:04

or someone she knows? So

31:07

she told Lori that she thought she

31:09

recognized this person. She thought that maybe

31:11

she'd seen them at a party before,

31:13

like, palling around, actually with her unhinged

31:15

coworker. But Lori says that

31:17

Mary didn't sound scared so

31:20

much as like, hey,

31:23

just so you know this happened, this was weird.

31:25

I mean, it was weird enough for her to call and let her

31:27

know. Then Mary said she was just

31:29

going to make a quick stop back at the office to shut

31:31

off her computer, sign out, and then she was going to go

31:33

home. But she never made it home.

31:35

Her husband reported her missing that night and then

31:37

the next morning she was found dead on that

31:40

little dirt road near that drug store. Do we

31:42

know if she made it back to the office?

31:45

I don't think she had time to because about

31:47

10 minutes after she hung up the phone from

31:49

that call with Lori, Mary made another call

31:51

and that one was to 911. What?

31:55

A frantic 911 call,

31:58

according to one of the investigators who... work the

32:00

case. Detective Wayne Coleman

32:02

from the Harris County Sheriff's Department

32:05

told Unsolved Mysteries, quote, it

32:07

covers the attack that happened to

32:09

Mary. And anybody that's ever heard

32:12

that tape has just had their

32:14

blood chilled listening to it. It's

32:16

a very chilling, disturbing call, end

32:18

quote. So hang on. They

32:21

have a recording of her murder? I

32:24

don't know. So investigators just say

32:26

it covers the attack. I'm

32:28

taking that to mean like you

32:30

hear everything. But I actually

32:33

don't know for sure. Yeah, I guess what

32:35

does it say? I wish I

32:37

could tell you. I'm telling you, I

32:39

don't know. Investigators have never released this

32:41

tape or shared any other details about

32:43

whatever they heard on it. Which I

32:45

feel she had to have said something,

32:47

right? Especially if it was the same

32:49

guy who was creeping her out the

32:51

store or especially if it was someone

32:54

she knew. Like how would it

32:56

not be on the call? Unless by the time they

32:58

picked up, like something's already happened or

33:00

it's the only thing I can think of. But

33:02

whatever is on that call, nobody

33:04

but the investigators actually know.

33:08

And I do think that they believe

33:10

that whatever happened to Mary

33:12

happened by someone she knew. Whether

33:14

she said the name or not.

33:16

And the one reason I think

33:19

this is they have suggested this

33:21

specifically because back in 2002, so

33:23

one of the detectives told the Houston Chronicle, quote,

33:28

he's talking about her car. She did

33:30

not let anybody in. It appeared it

33:32

was somebody who would have been able

33:34

to get into the locked car, end

33:37

quote. So does that mean

33:39

that the doors were locked when they got to the

33:41

scene? Wasn't the passenger side

33:43

door open? Yes, so detectives said that

33:45

Mary's car had doors that locked automatically

33:47

when the car was put into gear.

33:50

And basically what they're saying is they think

33:53

whoever attacked Mary somehow had access to the

33:55

car and they believe that the car was

33:58

locked. So,

34:00

I'm definitely missing something. Like, I feel like

34:02

the thing that they're not saying is like,

34:04

whoever did this to her had a spare

34:06

key to her car, but they didn't say

34:08

that outright. But the bottom

34:11

line is, they don't think it's a

34:13

random stranger. No. Mm-mm. Do they have

34:15

any other suspects at this point or

34:17

just this unhinged former coworker? Well, I

34:19

mean, he's definitely on the top of

34:21

the list for investigators, but

34:23

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34:25

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35:16

Officials are also eyeballing

35:19

Mary's husband of

35:21

17 years, Mike Morris. So

35:23

it turns out things were not all sunshine

35:25

and lollipops for Mike and Mary, and they

35:28

hadn't been for a couple of years by

35:30

that point. So Mike had been out of

35:32

work since they moved to Houston, and they

35:34

were fighting all the time. At one point,

35:36

he thought Mary might have been having an

35:39

affair with someone that they both knew, like

35:41

a family friend, and he confronted Mary about

35:43

this guy, but the guy and

35:45

her denied anything inappropriate was going on. Now,

35:47

Mike says that they had moved past that,

35:49

that yes, things had been rocky there for

35:51

a bit, but by the time Mary died,

35:53

they were in a good place. They were

35:56

basically best friends, he said. Do other people

35:58

say that? Uh, mm. Not

36:00

so much. Yeah. So other people

36:02

say that their marriage was far from ended.

36:04

And I mean, in fact, Mike was super

36:07

distrustful to the point where he

36:09

would even follow her. So apparently

36:11

Mary had told her sister Stephanie

36:14

that she had fallen for someone

36:16

else. And that while she wanted

36:18

to make her marriage to Mike work, there was

36:20

like three or four marriage counselors deep. And it

36:22

basically just got to the point where she was

36:24

thinking about filing for divorce. So

36:27

knowing all of that, combined with the fact that

36:30

they learned there is a 500 to $700,000 insurance

36:32

policy that Mike

36:35

had on Mary, it was all

36:38

making him look like a good suspect

36:40

to investigators. And besides all

36:42

of that, investigators just felt like Mike

36:44

was stonewalling them. They say

36:46

that he wouldn't let them talk to his

36:48

and Mary's daughter for like two months. And

36:50

then he refused to speak with them without

36:53

a lawyer present and he wouldn't do a

36:55

polygraph, which like, same Mike, but

36:57

still like, they just felt like he

36:59

wasn't being cooperative. But again,

37:01

like, I also wouldn't speak to

37:03

them without a lawyer, I for sure wouldn't do

37:06

a polygraph. So I'm not sure

37:08

like I see that as guilty or just a

37:10

guy trying to protect himself and his kid. I

37:12

mean, especially when you've got a kid on the

37:14

line, right? Like they've already lost one parent. And

37:16

Mike says like, listen, investigators basically labeled

37:19

me uncooperative as soon as I hired

37:21

a lawyer. Though, you know, detectives

37:23

on the other end are like, well, witnesses

37:25

don't hire lawyers, suspects do, you know, I

37:27

say like, you're still the husband, so I

37:29

don't care if you're a witness, I don't

37:31

care whatever, like, everyone should, crime can be

37:33

life rule, everyone should hire a lawyer, right?

37:36

And I do think Mike was cooperative because

37:38

he told the Houston Chronicle that he gave

37:40

the sheriff's department access to his apartment, he

37:42

gave them fingerprints, he gave them blood samples,

37:45

he just wouldn't do a polygraph. And

37:47

one of the main reasons he gives

37:49

is that he was taking antidepressants and

37:51

anxiety meds at the time of Mary's

37:53

murder, and he worried about how those

37:55

medications might impact the results of a

37:57

polygraph, which I'm pretty sure they came.

37:59

Yeah. But if the

38:01

rocky marriage and the big life insurance

38:04

policy and his dodgy approach with investigators

38:06

weren't enough, as they

38:08

go through this investigation, officials

38:10

find something unexpected in Mary's

38:12

phone records. So, there

38:15

is a phone call that Mike

38:17

made to Mary's cell phone two

38:20

hours after her 911 call.

38:24

Wouldn't it have been stranger if he

38:26

wasn't calling looking for her? So

38:28

the strange part isn't so much that Mike is

38:30

making this call. The strange

38:33

part is that this call connects

38:35

and then this call lasts four

38:38

minutes. And this is

38:40

two hours after Mary dialed 911.

38:44

And was her phone found in the car

38:46

with her? I don't know. So

38:48

there's like no reference to the phone in the source

38:51

material apart from like the mention of

38:53

the calls back and forth. But

38:55

they do say that nothing is missing at the scene.

38:57

So I assume it means that the phone was there.

38:59

Like I feel like they would have mentioned that the

39:01

phone was gone if it wasn't at the scene. But

39:04

they're also like holding stuff back still. So I don't know. Is

39:06

it is it possible the

39:08

timeline is off? No,

39:11

the detective said the 911 call

39:14

was like recording the attack at least, right? Yeah,

39:17

the attack. Like I, again, haven't heard

39:19

the call. So I don't know. And

39:22

here's the thing. If you if

39:24

you go by what Mike says, Mike says the call

39:26

never went through. His story is that he's at the

39:28

movies with his daughter at the time and he

39:31

doesn't deny making the call. But he says

39:33

the phone just rang and rang and rang

39:35

and rang and rang and rang and rang

39:37

and rang and rang. For four minutes? For

39:39

four minutes. Like an investigators call that out.

39:41

They're like, who lets the phone ring for

39:43

four minutes? But Mike says he

39:45

did. He's like, usually there's like an automated recording

39:48

voicemail that would come on say, you know, the

39:50

person you're trying to reach blah, blah, blah. But

39:52

he's like, it didn't that day. And he's

39:54

like, as long as it was ringing, I would

39:57

let it ring, which I mean, I kind If

40:00

it's not, if voicemail isn't picking up, like

40:03

maybe they're going to pick up, right? And

40:05

if she didn't, especially like if she didn't

40:07

have voicemail and it was like the person

40:09

you're trying to reach, like if it just

40:11

kept going and you're, you wait until you

40:13

hear that four minutes is a long time,

40:15

but that's a story. I mean,

40:17

that means that the call was missed, right? Like

40:19

do missed calls even show up on cell phone

40:21

bills? You are honing

40:24

in on the right thing. So they usually don't.

40:27

Like usually they only would

40:29

register as a four minute call if

40:31

the call was picked up and you were on the phone

40:33

for four minutes. And so when they

40:35

confront Mike with this, Mike is basically like,

40:37

listen, the phone company made a mistake. Okay.

40:40

Say it's not a mistake though. If

40:42

Mike did make the call and the

40:45

call did connect, which is

40:47

what the phone records show, who

40:49

was he talking to? And what were

40:51

they talking about for four minutes? Those

40:54

are the right questions, right? So according

40:56

to comments that detectives have made to

40:58

Unsolved Mysteries and the Houston Chronicle, the

41:01

sheriff's department's theory seems to be

41:03

that Mike hired someone to kill

41:05

his wife and this was him

41:08

calling to confirm with that person

41:10

that she was in fact dead.

41:12

That's their theory. Is

41:15

there any evidence to back that up?

41:17

I don't think so. I mean, if

41:19

there is, they haven't released it publicly,

41:21

but they're not shy about insinuating the

41:24

possibility that this scenario happened. I mean,

41:26

a detective told the Chronicle, quote, how

41:29

would someone know she had a gun in her car?

41:32

If she had been killed by just anyone

41:34

with a gun, that would be one thing,

41:36

but she was killed with the family gun.

41:39

End quote. And then he's quoted

41:41

in unsolved.com saying, quote, what you have

41:43

to wonder is what did

41:46

that phone call either set in

41:48

motion or end. End

41:50

quote. Now there's

41:52

something Mike said that a

41:54

lot of people find incriminating

41:57

in that episode of Unsolved Mysteries. Robert Stack says

41:59

something like. like, he adamantly denies

42:01

any involvement in her death. And then

42:03

it cuts to Mike saying, quote, I

42:07

had absolutely nothing to do with the

42:09

arrangement of Mary's murder. It's

42:11

a hurtful insinuation. It's

42:13

absolutely untrue. And people

42:16

really like hit on his words, the

42:19

arrangement of her murder. Yeah,

42:22

like the arrangement. And like, it feels

42:24

specific, but we also

42:27

don't see the full tape of the interview. And

42:29

if you ask me, and listen,

42:31

I'm not like fighting for this guy's innocence or whatever.

42:33

I'm just like trying to bring up points. Like, I'm

42:36

sure he was asked something like, did you

42:38

arrange your wife's murder? Like that is the

42:40

running theory. Like that's not a secret, right?

42:42

Like clearly that's what they

42:44

think happened. And so I'm sure that was

42:46

his response to that. But

42:49

there is something else that

42:51

makes the murder for higher theory

42:53

a compelling one. And

42:56

it's a theory that might

42:58

help explain the other Mary

43:01

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43:44

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43:46

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43:49

Dogs should be tested for existing heartworm

43:51

infection prior to starting a preventive. So

43:58

think about this. Two women,

44:01

both named Mary Morris, in

44:03

the same city. It's not

44:06

impossible to consider that maybe

44:08

a hitman killed

44:11

the wrong Mary Morris, especially

44:13

not when you see photos of the

44:16

two of them. And I actually, like, I have them, I'm gonna send

44:18

them to you, we can put them up. I

44:21

mean, in these pictures,

44:23

Mary McGinnis Morris is definitely,

44:25

like, younger looking, but they

44:27

have a lot of similar

44:29

features, right? Like dark hair,

44:31

fair skin, like dark eyes,

44:33

maybe brown eyes too. And

44:36

they have, like, the 90s bangs

44:38

that everyone had. But

44:40

they wouldn't pass for, like, twins

44:43

by any means. No,

44:45

I mean, certainly not to someone

44:47

who knew them well, right, but, like, that's

44:49

not the theory here. It's that

44:51

a stranger or someone hired who probably

44:53

didn't know them well could

44:55

have done this. And that's not, like,

44:58

an impossible mistake to consider. But you'd

45:01

think, like, even a

45:03

hitman would do, like, some homework

45:05

to know the difference between Mary

45:07

Morris, the bank employee, and Mary

45:10

Morris, like, director of a medical

45:12

facility. But maybe he is,

45:14

like, the shittiest. Like, I've heard stories recently,

45:17

there was actually a podcast I just recently

45:19

listened to about, like, how this guy hired

45:21

a hitman. And it's not like somebody who

45:23

was actually, like, a

45:25

regular hitman. And that

45:27

is, like, some CIA stuff. You don't just find hitmen

45:30

on the street and at a bar. Like, first of

45:32

all, most of the time it's someone undercover. Like, that

45:34

doesn't happen. Or it's, like, some

45:36

guy who's so hard up for cash that he's willing

45:39

to do this. And this is, like, there are not

45:41

these guys running around with this is their full-time job,

45:43

is what I'm saying. Right, right.

45:45

So, like, the chances are that it's

45:47

probably the shittiest hitman. But,

45:49

like, do they even have the same car? No,

45:51

so, like, one had a Chevy

45:54

Lumina, the other drove a Dodge

45:56

Intrepid. And so, listen,

45:58

I'm not even saying it's a perfect theory. But

46:00

it's a theory that I understand. And

46:02

they still, at this point, don't have

46:05

much else in the first Mary's case.

46:07

Like, that investigation is cooling off fast.

46:09

And as the days tick by, investigators

46:12

still, in her case, can't find any

46:14

suspects, they can't find any motive, they

46:16

can't find any evidence to support any

46:19

theories at all, unless

46:22

she wasn't the intended victim. But

46:25

wouldn't Wild Quinceance be

46:28

a more plausible explanation for two

46:31

women with the exact same name,

46:33

Mary Morris, like, murdered within a

46:35

few days of each other in

46:37

the same county? Yes, almost certainly,

46:39

yes. So like I said,

46:42

they're in the Houston area, remember, this is a

46:44

huge city, even back in 2000,

46:46

the population in Harris County was like over

46:48

3 million people. And actually,

46:50

for their coverage of this case, the folks from

46:53

the prosecutors' podcast actually looked up the Harris County

46:55

records from that year. And they say that in

46:57

2000, there were 300 murders in Harris County alone.

47:02

There were also nine, count

47:05

it, nine women named Mary Morris

47:07

in Harris County in 2000. And

47:10

of those nine, three of them died

47:13

in 2000. Wait, there's a

47:16

third dead Mary Morris in this

47:18

county in 2000. Yeah,

47:21

I couldn't find anything that states she was specifically

47:23

murdered. We just know that she died in Harris

47:25

County in 2000. But

47:27

either way, either way, with

47:29

these stats, like, coincidence feels

47:31

like a definite plausible explanation.

47:34

But there is this one nugget in

47:36

the source material that suggests otherwise.

47:39

So remember, Laurie, she's the second

47:41

Mary Morris's friend. So

47:44

she told Unsolved Mysteries that

47:46

at some point during that three

47:48

day window between the first

47:50

murder and the second murder, someone

47:52

made an anonymous phone call

47:54

to the Houston Chronicle saying they

47:57

got the wrong Mary Morris the first.

48:00

No way. Yeah, Lori says she

48:02

verified with someone at the Chronicle

48:04

that this happened, but

48:06

the series that I mentioned, the Prosecutors Podcast,

48:08

during their coverage of this case, they

48:11

actually called a bunch of people who used

48:13

to work there at the time because they

48:15

were skeptical of this, not because they thought

48:17

Lori was lying, but just because they hadn't

48:20

seen much aside from just her mentioning that

48:22

in Unsolved Mysteries. And this feels like something

48:24

that should be a bigger part of the

48:26

narrative if it happens. Feels significant. Yeah, right.

48:29

Like, we don't even need to talk about

48:31

different theories if this really happened. And the

48:33

people that they talked to said that there

48:35

was never a call like that. Like it

48:37

just straight up didn't happen. But

48:40

the theory doesn't hinge entirely on

48:43

that phone call. So remember how

48:45

the first Mary Morris had

48:47

her jewelry still accept her wedding

48:49

ring? Yeah. Okay. So

48:52

the other thing that people point to is they're like, okay,

48:55

maybe the killer took the wedding

48:57

ring back to whoever ordered the

48:59

hit as proof that the job

49:01

was done, especially because she

49:03

was going to be burned so badly. You

49:06

know what I mean? That they're like, we need

49:08

to prove that the body was hers. So

49:11

that's first Mary. And

49:13

then what's so interesting is would

49:15

you believe that Mike Morris, husband

49:18

of second Mary Morris, only reported

49:20

one thing missing when his wife was found

49:22

dead? A ring. Mm-hmm. Now,

49:26

I guess a few months later, a friend

49:28

of the family noticed that Mike and Mary's

49:30

16-year-old daughter was actually wearing the ring. And

49:32

when they asked Mike about it, he said

49:34

that they found it after all. So like,

49:37

okay. And I don't, I

49:39

get right. I don't know if it's like, oh, did

49:41

this theory come out? And then it's like all

49:43

of a sudden it's like, oh no, just kidding. Like the ring showed up. I

49:45

don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Were

49:48

officials of her onboard for this theory? I mean, I know they looked

49:50

into it because like it is

49:52

a really weird, wild coincidence to have

49:54

two pretty similar murders

49:57

happen with two people with

49:59

the same name. in a three-day period. And

50:02

like, given how remote the location the

50:04

first Mary Morris's body was found in

50:06

and the lengths her killer went to

50:09

to destroy the evidence, they're like, yeah,

50:11

it could be a contract killing. But

50:13

they couldn't find any evidence to support

50:15

this, obviously, or there would have been

50:17

charges filed. And if they

50:19

have evidence to support any other version

50:21

of events, they haven't shown their cards.

50:23

So they never develop a suspect in

50:25

the first Mary Morris's case? No. No

50:27

official ones as far as I can

50:30

tell. I will say,

50:32

over the years, people have kind of

50:34

wondered whether Mary's husband, you

50:36

know, we know second Mary's husband has been

50:38

suspicious. Over the years, they wonder if first

50:40

Mary's husband might be as

50:42

questionable as Mike was. Like, there are

50:45

even some things that Marilyn can't quite

50:47

explain. And those questions

50:49

have actually deteriorated their relationship.

50:52

Like, one of the things

50:54

I didn't tell you earlier when

50:56

I was talking about them going and finding her

50:58

car, but she talks about this on the podcast

51:00

she went on. I guess when

51:03

Marilyn's dad had called, right? Like, he's calling

51:05

on to everyone being like, has an accident

51:07

happened? And he finds out that there's this

51:10

car burn. He tells her where to go.

51:12

He's like, okay, the car is at Crosby

51:14

Lynchburg, where it meets the I-10. That's

51:17

what he told her on the

51:19

phone. That is not where the

51:21

car was, ultimately. So the crime

51:23

scene was on another street called

51:26

Crosby Cedar Bayou. And even

51:28

though they didn't know it at the time, Jay

51:31

took her right to it. Like, he knew

51:33

exactly where he was going. Yeah, I guess

51:35

like she was going to go turn one

51:37

way and he was like, no, actually go

51:39

this way. And then that's when they ended

51:41

up finding the car. And so

51:43

that ends up being strange to her, the

51:45

more she thinks about it. Marilyn also finds

51:47

out that Jay had actually been on that

51:49

very road earlier that morning, like right

51:52

past where Mary's car and remains were

51:54

actually found. Do we know why he

51:56

was out there? Yeah, so according to

51:58

the Prosecutors podcast, It's because he was

52:01

going to go see some horses. So

52:03

fine, sure, like he had a reason to

52:05

be there. But the other thing that I

52:07

found really interesting is that there are references

52:09

in some of the source material to horse

52:11

manure being a possible accelerant, which I've actually

52:14

heard before. So Marilyn says that

52:16

her mom used to keep buckets of horse

52:18

manure around the property. She had horses and

52:20

she'd set it aside after like mucking out

52:22

the stalls and they would use it as

52:24

fertilizer for her flowers. So

52:26

not unusual to have just buckets

52:29

of this potential accelerant around, something

52:31

that would have burned really hot for

52:34

a really long time, which is what

52:36

investigators think happened given how the car

52:38

was left. And the

52:40

last thing that raised eyebrows is that Jay

52:42

started getting rid of Mary's stuff like

52:44

right away after she died. Marilyn said

52:46

by the time they settled her mother's

52:48

estate, he was in the

52:50

process of getting, not just getting rid of

52:53

her stuff, getting remarried. Oh. Because

52:55

he's like married to this young lady from Russia.

52:58

He would have had to have started

53:00

her visa process like pretty quickly because

53:02

he was remarried within a year of

53:05

her mom's death. Wow. Now,

53:07

the only blip in

53:09

the first Mary's case or both cases, if

53:11

you look at them together, like

53:14

that has happened since all of this unfolded

53:16

in the 2000s, came about six

53:18

months after Mary's death. So Jay

53:21

got a bill in the mail for $2,000

53:23

for charges to Mary's phone card. I

53:27

know investigators looked into that and they ended up

53:29

tying it back to a 16 year old who

53:32

said that she'd found the card in a

53:34

purse that was in a parking lot of a

53:36

convenience store in Galveston. And the

53:38

sheriff's department ruled out any connection

53:40

between this 16 year old and

53:42

Mary. They even tracked down the purse itself.

53:46

Someone else had kept that. But the family

53:48

said it wasn't Mary's purse and everything else

53:50

that was originally found in it had been

53:52

tossed. So it's just

53:54

like this weird thing that pops up six months later

53:56

and then nobody knows what it means. And

53:59

other than that, that blips six

54:01

months after, there has not

54:03

been any movement as far as I can

54:05

tell. Not in the first

54:07

Mary Morris's case, Marilyn's mom, and not

54:09

in Mary McGinnis Morris's case either. And

54:12

I don't know about you, Britt, but I would

54:14

love to see something break that would either

54:16

tie these cases together once and for all

54:18

or break them apart once and for all.

54:21

Either way, find answers for both.

54:25

So if you have any information about

54:27

the murder of 48-year-old Mary Morris on

54:29

October 12, 2000

54:31

in Baytown, Texas, or the murder of

54:33

39-year-old Mary Morris, who was found October

54:35

16, 2000 in

54:37

Houston, Texas, please call Crime

54:39

Stoppers. You can give all

54:41

information anonymously, and their number is 713-222-TIPS. You

55:01

can find all the source material

55:03

for this episode on our website,

55:05

crimejunkypodcast.com. And you

55:07

can follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast.

55:10

We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. So,

55:25

what do you think, Chuck?

55:52

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